GADAG ~ Podcast
가닥 GADAG | Isiqendu 1 sePodcast (uNataly Han kunye noLinda Hamoui)
Kwesi siqendu, uLinda Hamoui uthetha noNataly Jung-Hwa Han, usihlalo woMbutho waseKorea eBerlin. Phakathi kwezinye izinto, oku kumalunga nendlela thina njengoluntu esingawonga ngayo amabali “abafazi abathuthuzelayo” kwaye sithethelele ubulungisa kubantu basetyhini ngokubanzi.
Ngombhalo opheleleyo wesiqendu, cofa apha ngezantsi:
ngaphezulu
Nataly [00:00:00] La mava athe ngqo kunye nabasindileyo andikhuthaze kakhulu kwaye andakha ukuba umsebenzi wam ulungile, ukuba kunjalo, ndicinga ukuba oko kunganceda ibhinqa elinye elalixhatshazwe ngokwesondo. kwaye aba bafazi bayabona ukuba ubomi buyaqhubeka, ukuba yiloo nto kuphela ekhoyo kuyo.
Linda [00:00:32] Wamkelekile. NdinguLinda Hamoui kwaye ndonwabile ukubamba olu thotho lwepodcast ezintathu. Le podcast iyinxalenye yeprojekthi ye-GADAG, iprojekthi ka-Oyoun exhaswa ngemali yiLotto Foundation Berlin, inkqubo yayo yoluntu eyenzeka ukususela ngo-Matshi 24 ukuya kwi-30 ka-Aprili, i-2024. Igama lesiKorea elithi Gadag lithetha umsonto omde osuka kumsonto omkhulu. Ngalo msonto sidibanisa imisonto yeenkumbulo zemfazwe zabasetyhini, imizimba engoonqevu kunye nemizimba ejongelwe phantsi. Le projekthi imalunga nokudala indawo apho amabali ngabanye okusinda kwimbali ye-postcolonial yaseKorea, iVietnam, iJapan kunye ne-diaspora yabo iyakhanyiswa. Amabali asoloko egqunyelelwe bubundlobongela bamakholoniyali noosolusapho baseNtshona. Kule podcast isiqendu ndijongana nesihloko esichukumisayo nesibalulekileyo senkcubeko yokukhumbula kunye neengxelo ezihlala zinganakwa okanye zicinezelwe kwimbali yeemfazwe kunye nemiphumo yazo. Ugxininiso lwam luphambili kumabali angabonakali kwiingxelo ezinkulu zabasetyhini, abantu abanobuqhetseba kunye namaqela angathathi ntweni okubandezeleka kunye nokomelela [00:01:33] anqabile ukuba abe yinxalenye yeenkumbulo ezidibeneyo. [2.0s] Siqala ibali lokuqala kolu ngcelele namhlanje. Ndithetha noNataly Han, i-CEO yoMbutho waseKorea eBerlin. Mholo. Molo, Natalia. Unjani namhlanje?
UNataly [00:01:45] Ndiphilile. Kukwayimini yam yokuzalwa namhlanje.
Linda [00:01:49] [00:01:49] Yintoni! Ngokwenene! Hayi, ngokwenene! Owu thixo, ukuba bendiyazile loo nto, ngesisibeke esi siqendu ngolunye usuku! [4.8s]
UNataly [00:01:55] Hayi, hayi, kulungile. haha
Linda [00:01:57] Ke ngaloo ndlela kuphela. Minemnandi kuwe. Ndiyathemba ukuba uyakusonwabela nangakumbi esi siqendu kwaye awusokuze usilibale kuba senzeke ngomhla wakho wokuzalwa. 🙂
Nataly [00:02:11] Ngokuchanekileyo, ibaluleke kakhulu. haha
Linda [00:02:13] Isipho esikhethekileyo sosuku lokuzalwa, ukuze sithethe. Emva koko andifuni ukuthatha ixesha lakho elininzi kwaye ndingathanda ukukwazisa ngokufutshane ukuze abaphulaphuli bazi ukuba sisebenzisana nabani. Natalia. Ukufika eJamani eneminyaka eyi-16 esuka eSeoul, umama wakho waqeshwa njengomsebenzi weendwendwe, usebenze ngokuzikhandla ukuze uqaphele kwaye uhloniphe amabali "abafazi abathuthuzelayo". Ndiza kuthetha ngokuba ngoobani “abafazi bokuthuthuzela” kwaye yintoni kanye kanye abayiyo kamva. Ngo-2009 nisungule iqela elisebenzayo leComfort Women kwaye nisebenzela ukuseka iComfort Women Museum ukusukela ngo-2019. Iprojekthi ebhala amasikizi kunye nokubandezeleka kwaba bafazi kwaye idala isikhumbuzo esihlala sihleli kubo. Siza kuthetha ngale nto kwakhona kwinxalenye ephambili. Okokuqala, Nathaly, ngaba mhlawumbi ungasixelela ngamava akho obuqu xa wafika eJamani uneminyaka eli-16 ubudala? Waziva njani ngayo kwaye yeyiphi imiceli mngeni oye wajamelana nayo?
UNataly [00:03:07] Ewe, ukufika kwam eJamani, unyaka ka-1978, ndacinga eJamani ukuba yonke into yayingwevu. Andazi ukuba kutheni ndicinge njalo. Kwaye yayininzi, inemibala kakhulu kunokuba bendicinga. Kwaye umothuko wokuqala yayingumdlalo webhola weVfB Stuttgart ngoMgqibelo. Ndibone abantu abatsha besela utywala, betshaya, begibisela iibhotile phantsi. Kwaye ndaziva ndikhohlisiwe kuba ndandisoloko ndihambisa umfanekiso onjalo eKorea. AmaJamani asebenza nzima kwaye athobekile kwaye aqeqeshekile. Kwaye oko kwakuchasene noko.
ULinda [00:03:52] Haha, yayiyothusa inkcubeko leyo, ukuba singathetha.
UNataly [00:03:54] Ewe, yayiyothusa inkcubeko, akunjalo? Okanye kunoko, yonke into yahlukile kunokuba ubucinga.
Linda [00:04:02] Ngaphezu kwako konke, njengoko usitsho, ingwevu, iBerlin ingwevu kakhulu, ngakumbi ebusika. Andiqondi ukuba itshintshile, akunjalo? Ungayisayina loo nto. Kodwa ngaba bekukho imiceli mngeni ethile oye wadibana nayo okanye into enjalo? Yintoni eyona nto yayinzima kuwe xa wawuqala eJamani?
UNataly [00:04:17] Ewe, kanye. Ndandisele ndineminyaka eli-16 ubudala yaye ndandigqibe ibanga lesithoba yaye kwakungasafuneki ukuba ndiye esikolweni. Kwaye andizange ndikwazi ukuya kwisikolo samabanga aphakamileyo nasesekondari kwaye ekuphela kwesikolo yayisisikolo samabanga aphakamileyo kwaye ndandingekathethi nasiphi na isiJamani okanye ulwimi lwesibini lwasemzini. Ngaphandle kwesiNgesi nezinto ezinjalo, asikho isikolo esasifuna ukundithatha. Kwaye esona sikolo sasindimemile yayisisikolo se-home economics. Bekufanele ndize kwi-exam ndinxibe ifaskoti ne-oven mitt (haha) kwabe kukho intombi ena-16 ubudala. Akakuthandi ukuya esikolweni kangako. Kodwa ngandlel’ ithile oko kwandothusa kancinane ndaza ndacinga ukuba, ayisiyiyo le nto ndandifuna ukuba yiyo. Awuzange ucinge ngayo kwaphela. Yayingumqobo wokuqala lowo ukuba akukho sikolo sandamkela. Yaye ngoko umfundisi wandithumela kwisikolo ekuhlalwa kuso samaKatolika neeFrancisca Sisters eBavaria. Emva koko ndandisele ndineminyaka eli-16 ubudala, kodwa kwafuneka ndiye kwibanga lesihlanu. Kwaye kwafuneka afunde isiLatini nesiJamani ngaxeshanye. Yayilucelomngeni olukhulu olo. Kodwa ndaye ndavuya ngandlel’ ithile kuba ndiye ndakwazi ukuya esikolweni. Baqala ngolo hlobo ke ubomi bam eJamani.
Linda [00:05:45] Ke ndinokucinga ukuba unokuphoxeka kakhulu ngale nto uyithethileyo. Uzive ungcatshiwe ngulo mbono wehlabathi, mhlawumbi yiloo nto abantu abayibiza ngokuba yiJamani, uphucuke kakhulu okanye usebenza nzima. Uye wahlangabezana njani noku kuphoxeka ngoko?
UNataly [00:06:01] Owu, eneneni ndiyithanda kakhulu loo nto. IKorea yayibuzwilakhe bomkhosi ngelo xesha. Saye kakhulu, kwafuneka ukuba siqeqesheke kakhulu kunye neeyunifomu kunye nokuchetywa kweenwele ezifanayo. Kwaye eJamani yayilixesha le-hippie. Amantombazana ahamba enganxibanga ezitratweni kwaye emva koko amaJamani abambene kakhulu okanye abantu abancinci ngakumbi ezitratweni. Ngoko nangaphezulu kunangoku, akunjalo? Ewe, ewe, ngokuchanekileyo. Yonke le nto yayicaphukisa kwaye ndonwabele kakhulu le nkululeko eJamani, ewe. Ngelo xesha, kwakungumngeni omkhulu kakhulu, njengowesifazane wase-Asia, ekhangeleka engaqhelekanga, eBavaria kunye naphi na apho ndihamba khona, ndandisoloko ndiyinto engaqhelekanga, ngoko kuthetha. Kwaye amava am okuqala kwi-disco kunye nomfana ogama linguVincent, kwaye ndathi igama elithi Vincent van Gogh okanye into ethile, kodwa linamathele kum. Ndatsho ndingafuni, qha ndatsho ndityhala. Kwaye ndiye ndafumana la mava rhoqo. Ngoko yayingamava obuhlanga adityaniswa nocalucalulo ngokwesini. Yayingumthwalo omkhulu kakhulu lowo. eyayindikhapha ubomi bam bonke, naxa ndandiselula. Ngenene ndiyavuya kuba ndimdala ngoku kwaye andisaphawulwa kangako kwiivenkile zokutyela ezitalatweni nasezibhasini nakwizithuthi zikawonke-wonke.
Linda [00:07:45] Mhlawumbi kwakhona kuba ngoku, ngakumbi eBerlin, apho sihlala sobabini, awusenguye owahlukileyo. Ndisuka e-Bamberg e-Bavaria kwaye ndineengcambu zaseSyria nam kwaye bendingenalo uluntu lwaseSyria apho. Ngoko ndandisoloko ndinjalo. Ewe, kodwa ndiyathetha, unomnye onemvelaphi yokufuduka, bonke abanye bangamaJamani kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo ndiyiqaphele loo nto. Ndiziva ndikhuselekile kancinci eBerlin, ndizakuthi ngoku, kuba baninzi abantu abanengqondo efanayo, ndizakuthi ngoku. UNataly, ndithetha ukuba, ungowaseKorea, waya eJamani xa wawuneminyaka eyi-16. Kuthetha ukuthini ukuba ngumKorea kuwe ngoko?
UNataly [00:08:22] Ewe, ukuba ngumKorea ngokucacileyo kunento eninzi yokwenza nobuntwana bam kwaye ndonwabile, ubomi bam bonke apha eJamani, ukuba ndifumene intlupheko enkulu ebuntwaneni bam. IKorea yayisemva kweMfazwe yaseKorea, malunga neminyaka elishumi kamva kunokuzalwa kwam naxa ndandisiya esikolweni. Ndafumana ubuhlwempu obuninzi, kodwa kunye nothando oluninzi. Xa wena, xa abantu behlupheka, kukho umanyano oluninzi, kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo kukho izinto ezingathandekiyo kuyo yonke indawo. Kwaye ukuba ngumKorea ngokwenene kukufudumala. Ngoko ukhawuleza ube njengosapho kwaye abantu bayathembana. Ngoko. Kwaye abazali bam babengamahlwempu. Ngoko ke asizange sihlupheke kakhulu, kodwa nabo bakhuthazwa kakhulu ukuba banamhlanje kwaye basikhulise ngokulinganayo mna nomninawa wam kwaye bafumana izinto ezininzi ezintle, zothando. Kwaye ndinombulelo kakhulu ngaloo nto. Kwaye oko kuhlala kundidibanisa neKorea.
Linda [00:09:36] Ngokuqinisekileyo kuvakala kakhulu, kumnandi kakhulu. Ndicinga ukuba wonke umntu weMigra unento edibanisa nekhaya labo lesibini okanye isazisi. Nataly, iprojekthi ye-GADAG ngokuyinhloko malunga nokuba iinkumbulo zemfazwe zisenza ntoni kwaye ngakumbi kubantu abanqabileyo, abafazi, njl. Kwiinkcubeko ezininzi, ezi zikhumbuzo zemfazwe zidluliselwa kwisizukulwana ukuya kwesinye. Ngaba unokusichazela ukuba iintsapho zaseKorea zithetha njani ngemfazwe? Okanye ngaba kwakungumcimbi kwintsapho yakho? Kwaye ukuba kunjalo, ezi nkumbulo zizuzwe njengelifa zichaphazela njani ubomi bakho bemihla ngemihla, kodwa nomsebenzi wakho.
UNataly [00:10:14] Ewe, utata wam wabaleka eNyakatho Korea ngelo xesha. Ubalise kancinci kakhulu ngobomi bakhe, kodwa usapho lukanina, oko kukuthi abafazi, nabo baxelele umakhulu wam ngakumbi. Sekunjalo, kwakukho intlungu engathethekiyo entsatsheni. Kodwa wonke umntu wayefuna ukuyicinezela le ntlungu. Mh Kwifamily yam apho ndisiya ndiba mdala qha ndiyayiqonda intlungu umakhulu ebeyinyamezele kodwa ebengatsho, incwina yakhe qho ekuseni, ebephefumla kanje "Ha-" enje. Kwaye ndiyayiqonda loo nto namhlanje. Kwaye ngamanye amaxesha ndiye ndiphawule ukuba umzimba wam wonke okanye ulusu lwam lubuhlungu ngenxa yokuba kwakukho iintlungu ezininzi kwintsapho yethu. Ngoko ukufa koonyana okanye amalungu entsapho. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba, umama wayeneminyaka eyi-14, umzekelo, wayenokubabona aba bantu bafa kwaye woyika kwaye kwakungekho ndawo kwaphela. Abazali bam babengenandawo yokuyiqhuba. Ke namhlanje, xa sifumana unxunguphalo lwemfazwe olunje, sinamawakawaka onyango kwaye mhlawumbi nendawo apho sinokuyiqhuba. Kodwa ke babengenayo loo nto emva koko, yayiyinto nje yokusinda.
Linda [00:11:59] Kwaye kunjani namhlanje? Ngoko ngoku unalo ithuba lokuxubusha oku nentsapho yakho, ukuba oko kunokwenzeka?
UNataly [00:12:09] Ndize eJamani kwaye utata wam wahlala eKorea. Kodwa sasivana kakhulu, sithetha ngezinto ezininzi, kodwa hayi ngokwenene ngeli bali lemfazwe, ndandiyikhumbula loo nto. Kwakukho neemeko kunye nomama apho wayenokuthi mhlawumbi uxelele ngakumbi, kodwa ngandlela-thile yalahleka kubomi bemihla ngemihla. Ngoku ndisiva kancinane le nto kwezinye izalamane ngendlela eziye zajamelana ngayo nemfazwe. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba abazali bam babesoloko befuna ukuyicinezela.
Linda [00:12:55] Ibuchaphazela njani ubomi bakho bemihla ngemihla, ubomi bakho bemihla ngemihla bomsebenzi?
UNataly [00:12:59] Owu ewe, kuba besikwajongene nababizwa ngokuba ngabafazi bentuthuzelo, ndihlala ndibandakanyeka kwezi nkumbulo zemfazwe. Yiyo loo nto ndiqonda la mava kungekuphela nje ngamagama, aneenkcazo ezicace gca, kodwa la manqanaba eemvakalelo, angathethwayo.
ULinda [00:13:25] Kukho ifilimu okanye i-documentary efana naleyo eqhube kwada kwasekupheleni konyaka ophelileyo, ndicinga ukuba kwi-ARD, ZDF, Hao Are You. Andazi ukuba uyayazi na loo nto, yile nto ithetha ngayo. Ndicinga ukuba, ngokuqinisekileyo kunokwenzeka, ndicinga ukuba eVietnam, e-China, imalunga nesihloko esifanayo, ukuba iinkumbulo zemfazwe, isihloko kwintsapho asixoxiswanga kwaphela kwaye sidluliselwa kwizizukulwana. Kwaye eyona nto iyenzayo ebantwaneni lubudlelwane phakathi komntwana nabazali, ukuba macala onke wonke umntu uthetha into eyahlukileyo okanye ufuna ukuyicinezela. Maxa wambi iintsapho azithethisani kangangamashumi eminyaka. Njengoko kwakhona iza nomsindo omkhulu kunye nosizi. Ke ndiyakwazi ngokuqinisekileyo kakhulu, ndibancome kakhulu. Ngokuqinisekileyo ichukumisa kakhulu. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba abantu abaninzi baziva ngendlela efanayo. Kwaye uNataly, iprojekthi ye-GADAG, i-podcast yinxalenye yayo, igxile kwingxelo yabasetyhini, abantu abakhohlakeleyo kunye namaqela angathathi hlangothi kwiimeko zemfazwe. Ngaba wena ngokwakho uyibona njani indima yabasetyhini emfazweni kwaye yahluke njani kwinkcubeko yesizwe, elawulwa ngamadoda yokukhumbula?
UNataly [00:14:38] Ewe, kunjalo. Abasetyhini basoloko bebandakanyeka kolu bundlobongela nokuxhatshazwa ngokwesondo kubomi bemihla ngemihla. Kwaye emfazweni awukhuselwanga kangako. Kwaye into ababhinqileyo badla ngokuba ngamadoda ke akwithafa ledabi kwaye abafazi bashiywe ngasemva nabantwana kunye nako konke oku kungakhuselekanga kubomi bemihla ngemihla. Ukholo lolona celomngeni lukhulu kumabhinqa. Kukho uloyiko oluninzi olubandakanyekileyo.
ULinda [00:15:17] Ngaphezu kwako konke, sisihloko ophinda usilandele okanye usiqhube kwiprojekthi yakho "Thuthukisa abafazi". Ngaba mhlawumbi ungayicacisa ngokufutshane? Kuwo wonke umntu ongayazi le nto. Imalunga nantoni kanye kanye iprojekthi ethi “Comfort Women” okanye iyintoni? Lithetha ntoni kuwe igama elithi “ukuthuthuzela abafazi”?
UNataly [00:15:34] Ewe, ke igama elithi "thuthuzela abafazi" luhlobo loguqulelo oluthe ngqo. Ke thina, oko kukuthi, abafazi, abanikela intuthuzelo kumadoda, ngokungathi kunjalo, oko kuthetha ngenkonzo yesondo, ngokungathi kunjalo. Kwaye oku kudlwengulwa kwabantu abaninzi, kodwa hayi ngoku, akucwangciswanga, kodwa kucwangciswe ngokucwangcisiweyo kwaye kucwangciswe ngumkhosi waseJapan. AmaJamani ayenayo inkqubo efanayo, i-Wehrmacht brothel okanye i-brothel kwiinkampu zoxinaniso. Kodwa eJapan, umkhosi waseJapan wawunombono omkhulu. IJapan iphinde yalwa imfazwe ixesha elide, ukusukela ngo-1931 ukuya kowe-19, iminyaka eli-145, kwaye ukusukela ngo-14 ukuya phambili baqesha kakhulu abafazi abavela kumathanga anjengeKorea neTaiwan, kuqala, emva koko kwimimandla yemfazwe apho babesilwa kuyo yonke indawo. eTshayina , kwiiPhilippines, eIndonesia naseMpuma Timor. Ngoko amazwe angaphezu kwe-1937 achaphazeleka, apho kwakugquba imfazwe kuyo yonke indawo. Kwaye le nkqubo yenzeka kuba bebefuna ukunqanda udlwengulo olukhulu esizeni. Yiyo loo nto, yaye babesoyika kakhulu ukuba amajoni ayeza kosulelwa zizifo ezidluliselwa ngeentlobano zesini. Kwaye oko ngandlela-thile komeleza amandla okulwa omkhosi oxhobileyo, ukuba kuthiwe. Ke ngoko bazisa amantombazana acocekileyo kwaye basasaza iikhondom ukuthintela ezi zifo ezosulela ngokwabelana ngesondo. Kwaye la majoni yayikwangabafana abaselula ababesoyika ukufa. Yaye olo yayiluhlobo oluthile lomvuzo ovela kumlawuli waseJapan ngokusinda. Kwaye kwizifundo zamva nje kukho imiqondiso yokuba umkhosi waseJapan wawushishina ngala makhuphoni, imali eyahlawulwa ngamajoni awo, yaza yaqokelela imali yaza yayisebenzisela, er, ukuxhasa imfazwe kwakhona. Le yinkqubo ephambeneyo. Kufuneka uyiqonde loo nto kuqala. Hayi nje ubundlobongela obuphathelele kwezesondo, kodwa bubugebenga borhulumente obucwangcisiweyo. Kwaye oko akucacanga ngokupheleleyo kubantu abaninzi.
Linda [00:18:16] Nakweyiphi na imeko, ufumana, ngakumbi eJamani ufumana okuninzi, [00:18:21] kuncinci kakhulu. Kwiprojekthi yakho unomnqweno onamandla kakhulu wokuqinisekisa ukuba oku akulityalwa [5.4s] kwaye kuyaqwalaselwa. Ingaba eyakho imbali kunye neyosapho lwakho ibe nefuthe njani kwimbono kunye nokuzinikela kwakho “kubafazi abathuthuzelayo” kunye nophuhliso lweMyuziyam yabaseTyhini?
UNataly [00:18:40] Ndiye ndaqala ukujongana nesihloko, ukuze nayo ibe nefuthe. Xa ndandisengumntwana, umakhulu waxelela abamelwane ukuba wazalwa ngowe-1899, ngokungathi kunjalo, yaye babesazi ngexesha lolawulo lwamathanga lwaseJapan. Kwaye wathi ngelo xesha kwakukho amantombazana athatyathwa ngamajoni aseJapan. Ilizwi lakhe lalizele luloyiko. Ndandisazi ukuba yinto. Ndandingazi ndisengumntwana. So inoba bendingekho nasesikolweni. Kodwa uloyiko ndalugcina ngasemva kwilizwi lakhe. Ndacinga ukuba inokuba inento yokwenza nathi, nabafazi. Kwaye kuphela ngo-1991, xa ubungqina bokuqala bexesha lathi ekugqibeleni bophula ukuthula emva kweminyaka engama-46 kwaye bathetha ngale nkqubo yentuthuzelo yabasetyhini, kwaba ngathi yiqhekeza lephazili entlokweni yam. Ewe lonto umakhulu ebesoyika xa endixelela lonto. Sonke sasingazi kwaye lilo nje ibali. Kwaye bendililandela ibali ukusukela ngoko. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba yiloo nto kanye eyayibangela ukuba abafazi bathule, kuba ngokwenene ngumthwalo lo. Ngoko ke, ukuba umfazi, nam ndakhuliswa ngolo hlobo, intombazana ayivumelekanga ukuva ubumnandi, intombazana ayivumelekanga ukuba ibe namava esondo. Kuphela ke apho kuya kuhlambuluka kwaye nikwazi ukutshata. Ngoko ke zonke ezi ngcamango zazihamba nobuntwana nobutsha bam. Kwaye oku kuye kwakhokelela ekubeni ihenyukazi, ngoko kuthetha, imbi kakhulu, umfazi owileyo. Kwaye eso yayisisizathu sokuba ungakwazi ukuthetha ngayo. Ke oku, oku kuthula kunye nokuthula kwabasetyhini kunento yonke yokwenza nenkqubo kasolusapho. Kwaye kufuneka siyichithe ngengqondo le nkqubo. Kwaye oku kusenzulu kakhulu namhlanje ukuba amantombazana amancinci asandul 'ukusitshela kwi-workshop yethu ukuba kukho i-scandal eninzi, umzekelo ngeefoto ezinqunu. Athi itshomi ndibonise ndithumele ifoto ndinqunu, ibonise zonke itshomi zakhe ijikelezise wonke umntu akhombe intombi namantombazana athi inkwenkwe, inkwenkwe xa inamantombi amaninzi ke iqhawe, i-playboy kunye nentombazana ke ngoko kwaye "ihenyukazi" kwiimpawu zocaphulo. Ngoko le mbono isekho nanamhlanje.
Linda [00:21:34] Ewe, ngokwenene. Andazi nokuba leliphi na iqela apho oku akunjalo. Ndiyakwazi oku kumxholo wesiArabhu okanye eJamani. Nokuba iJamani ithi ewe kwihlabathi langaphandle, sililizwe elikhululekileyo, kodwa bendiyazi ukuba ngaphambili, xa ndisesikolweni abafana babenamantombazana amaninzi, bepholile kwaye bengamagorha. Kwaye amantombazana abonakaliswe ngokukhawuleza, kumanqaku okucaphuna "iihuka". Ndicinga ukuba iyafana yonke indawo. Yaye intsapho yakho okanye abo bakungqongileyo basabela njani xa wawuqalisa ukujongana nomxholo?
UNataly [00:22:07] Ewe, abazali bam bacinga ukuba kulungile, kodwa ndinomzala, umzekelo, kusapho olwandisiweyo. Umzala wam ulingana nabazali bam yaye wasabela ngendlela eqhelekileyo njengamanye amadoda aseKorea. Yhoo lihlazo esizweni kwaye lihlazo kusapho ukuba ayimnandanga. Kutheni kufuneka ujongane nale nto? Oko kwakukudala. Makubenjalo. Kwaye kukho izihloko ezintle kakhulu kwaye bezisoloko zisithiwa emadodeni okanye kwi-ambassy yaseKorea nayo yandixelela kwiminyaka yoo-90s ukuba kukho izihloko ezimnandi malunga neKorea, ngokuqinisekileyo kuya kufuneka uqukumbele esi sihloko. Kwakukho inkcaso eninzi, kodwa okwangoku ucinga ukuba yinto elungileyo.
Linda [00:23:01] Kwaye ithini intsingiselo umfazi wentuthuzelo? Ukuthuthuzela abasetyhini kwinqanaba lembali nakumzabalazo wanamhlanje wokuqatshelwa?
UNataly [00:23:08] Ewe, ibiyothusa loo nto namhlanje, kuba eli bali alaziwa. Ngoko ke ulutsha oluza kuthi aluzange lweva ngalo, kwaye baye baxelela abahlobo babo okanye ekhaya kwaye akukho mntu ulaziyo eli bali kwaye libaluleke kakhulu. Kanti ke okwangoku, abafazi abaninzi abachatshazelwa koku bona okanye abasuka kwamanye amazwe bathi kubaluleke kangakanani na ukuba la mabhinqa, lo msebenzi, abasaphilayo bathuthuzele, bawuqalise lo msebenzi, ukuze singaphinde siwucinezele. Kwaye njengoko benditshilo, yinto nje yexesha elidlulileyo kwaye obu bubundlobongela obuphathelele kwezesondo obucwangcisiweyo, kodwa busaqhubeka nanamhlanje. Kwaye ngakumbi amantombazana amancinci, ulutsha, kodwa namakhwenkwe abeza kwimyuziyam yethu ababoni oku njengebali eligqityiweyo, kodwa kunoko badlulisela ngokukhawuleza kubo, emizimbeni yabo. Kwaye loo nto inento eninzi yokwenza nokuzimisela. Kwaye iyandothusa kakhulu into yokuba abantu abancinci baqonde eyona ngxaki ibalulekileyo ngokukhawuleza kunabantu abadala.
Linda [00:24:38] Ucinga ukuba yintoni ebangela oku?
UNataly [00:24:41] Ndicinga ukuba thina badala sicinga ukuba, Owu, lulwaphulo-mthetho lwaseJapan olu, okanye iKorea lilizwe elingamaxhoba. Okanye ngaba sele sizaliswe ngokupheleleyo zizibakala nolwazi lwembali ezintloko zethu? Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye abantu abatsha bavakalelwa ngokukhawuleza ngabasetyhini abachaphazelekayo. Yiyo loo nto becinga ngoko nangoko, Kuthekani ngomzimba wam? Ndime phi kulo mxholo? Kwaye namakhwenkwe athetha ngokuphandle kangangokuba nangona engazange azenzele ngokwawo, ngandlel’ ithile aziva enetyala yaye ngokuyinxenye enoxanduva loko. Ngokwenene ndiyifumana inika umdla kakhulu into yokuba abantu abancinci basondele kakhulu kumxholo kwaye bacinge ngawo kwangoko. Kwaye ke bavuleleke kakhulu kwaye bathethe ngentsebenziswano yabo? Ewe, malunga nothando lwabo, malunga neminqweno yabo. Ngoko akukho konke konke njengoko sicinga, malunga nolwaphulo-mthetho okanye into ethile. Bakhawuleza bangenelele baze bathethe ngeziqu zabo.
Linda [00:25:59] Ewe, ewe, kulungile, intle kakhulu kwaye izisa nethemba. Asiyiyo yonke into ephathelele ulutsha embi njengoko abanye bekhalaza.
UNataly [00:26:05] Hayi, hayi, hayi kwaphela. Haha.
ULinda [00:26:12] UNataly, sele uyithethile indlela okusingqongileyo, indawo yosapho lwakho eKorea, isabela ngayo kuyo. Lo mxholo. Abantu baseJamani basabela njani kumba wokuthuthuzela abafazi kunye nemyuziyam? Ngaba kukho ukungafani kwindlela yokubona? Xa kuthelekiswa neKorea, kunjalo, kodwa nakwamanye amazwe?
UNataly [00:26:29] Ewe, ukuza kuthi ga ngoku amava am eJamani ebelungile kakhulu phambi kokuba ndiseke imyuziyam. Ngabantu abaninzi. Andiyenzi ndedwa le nto. Kuvakala ukuba ndithetha njalo. Siliqela elithi "Comfort Women", baninzi ngokwenene. Isizukulwana sokuqala sikhona iminyaka engaphezu kwama-30. Sisebenza kunye nenyathelo labasetyhini baseJapan, kunye neqela labasetyhini baseKorea kunye nabantu abavela kwiimvelaphi ezahlukeneyo. Ngoko isihloko sibaluleke kakhulu. Kakade ke, ayisosihloko abantu abanomdla kuso kwaye bendisoloko ndimenywa, njl. Into kuphela eyayisilela eJamani kukuba le nkqubo inento yokwenza nobukoloniyali kwaye kwaye mva nje iJamani inenkxalabo yayo. ixesha elidlulileyo lobukoloniyali, kwaye ukufikelela kwesi sihloko kuye kwaba lula kakhulu. Kwaye xa uwonke uthi lo ngumsebenzi obaluleke kakhulu kwaye uyabona ukuba kwenzeka into efanayo eJamani kwiMfazwe yesibini yeHlabathi engazange ijongwe.
ULinda [00:27:48] Kwaye ubudlelwane phakathi kweKorea, iVietnam kunye neJapan bunzima kakhulu kwaye bubunjwe ziingxabano zembali. Ucinga ukuba ubutshaba bunokoyiswa njani kwaye nokuqondana okunzulu phakathi kwala mazwe kunokukhuthazwa?
UNataly [00:28:02] Ngokuqinisekileyo. Kwangexesha elide, sinenkqubo yokutshintshiselana evela kwi-Korea Association kunye nabafundi abancinci baseJamani, ePoland, eFransi, eKorea, eJapan, eChina, okt kumazwe amathandathu. Sahamba unyaka eYurophu, oko kukuthi eJamani, ePoland naseFransi okanye eBelgium, eBrussels neEuropean Union saza saya eTokyo naseSeoul okanye eKorea. Kwaye ndiyakholelwa ukuba eyona nto ibalulekileyo kukuba abantu badibane ngokwabo ngqo. Yaye abafundi abancinane baseJapan nabaseKorea abadibana nabo ngokwabo bathi wayenomkhethe. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba sithethe omnye nomnye. Ukuba sicacisa macala omabini. Yintoni ebalulekileyo, ndicinga ukuba, kunzima kakhulu ukuseka okanye oku kuqonda akukho, ukuba kwinzala yesizwe sobugwenxa kunye / okanye isizwe samaxhoba kwaye kuya kufuneka ube nolu lawulo malunga nokuba yeyiphi imbono oyijongayo. imbali ukusuka.
ULinda [00:29:30] Kwaye ngaphezu kwako konke, ngokudibana kwakho uya kuqonda ukuba ekupheleni kosuku unokufana ngakumbi kunokuba ubucinga kwaye ucalucalulo lunokophulwa. Ewe, ndiyakwazi ukucinga ukuba umsebenzi wakho kunye nentuthuzelo yabasetyhini ngokukodwa ngumxholo onzima kakhulu, onokuthi ube noxinzelelo kakhulu xa ujongene nemfazwe, ubundlobongela kunye nengcinezelo. Wena ngokobuqu uhlangabezana njani nomthwalo ongokweemvakalelo oza nokusebenza kwimixholo enzima ngolo hlobo?
UNataly [00:29:57] Ke kwiminyaka embalwa yokuqala, loo nto ihlala ibeka uxinzelelo oluninzi kum. Kwaye phambi kokuba ndijongane nomba wokuthuthuzela abantu basetyhini, ndasebenza nabathengisi ngemizimba kwii-GIs. Esi sisihloko se-GADAG. Kwakukho izigaba apho ndandicinga ukuba andinakukwazi ukusingatha lo mbandela kwakhona. Ndandifuna ukubaleka nam. Ndandikhe ndarhoxa, kodwa ngandlel' ithile isihloko sihlala sibonakala sidibana nam. Ngandlela-thile ndandingakwazi ukubaleka. Ndiye ndaba phezu isihloko kwakhona kwaye into eyenza lo msebenzi lula kukuba ndiye ndazi abasindayo intuthuzelo abafazi ngokobuqu ndahamba nabo kulo lonke elaseJamani kwaye namava aba bafazi ngokusondeleyo kakhulu. Kwaye nokuba abafazi bayabuqonda obu bunzima ngoku kuxela, ukuxela esidlangalaleni kunye nenyani yokuba silapho, sibamamele, ethe yaxhobisa ngokumangalisayo aba bafazi kunye nam. Ngoko bafumana into enzima kakhulu, basinda kuyo, banomsebenzi onjalo ukuba babonakalise esidlangalaleni kwaye baxelele imbali ukuze ingaphinde iphinde iphinde iphinde. Ukuba akukho mfazwe. Aba ngabafazi abangazange bakwazi ukuya esikolweni, bephila ngokuhlupheka kakhulu, kodwa benamandla anjalo kwaye bonwabile. Ngoko babehlekisa nabo nayo yonke into. Kwaye la mava athe ngqo kunye nabasindileyo andikhuthaza kakhulu kwaye andakha ukuba umsebenzi wam ulungile, ukuba kunjalo ngokwenene, ndicinga ukuba ukuba kuya kunceda ibhinqa elinye elaxhatshazwa ngokwesondo kwaye aba bafazi banokubona ukuba uBomi. iyaqhubeka, yiloo nto, kwaye ngamanye amaxesha, xa ndiziva ndingaziva kakuhle, xa lo wozakuzo waseJapan kuyo yonke indawo uzama ukuthintela umsebenzi wethu, Ndikwacinga nam, Ndingenza njani oku ngokuchasene nemeko enamandla kangaka ukuze ndiphile. Kodwa ke sicinga ngokwethu, aba bafazi nabo, akukho nzima kwaphela, kodwa kunoko liwonga elikhulu endikwaziyo ukujongana nalo kwaye aba bafazi bakwazile ukwazana.
Linda [00:32:28] Uyithethe kakuhle kakhulu. Ndiyakwazi ukucinga, okanye ndiyazi, sele ndinempendulo kubafazi oye wathetha nabo ngayo, mhlawumbi nawe uthi oku luhlobo lokuxhobisa nabo. Kodwa ndiyakwazi ukucinga ukuba isenokuzisa impiliso ngandlela thile, ukuze mhlawumbi uziqhubele ngcono okanye uyamkele ngandlel’ ithile, kuthetha ukuthini ukwamkela, andazi ukuba eli gama lichanekile na, kodwa mhlawumbi ungasuka nje uvume. vumelana nayo, ukuba kunokwenzeka.
UNataly [00:32:54] Ewe, eyona nto yandichukumisayo yayikukuhlala phantsi kunye, abasindileyo, xa ndandibandwendwele ngentwasahlobo, owasindayo wathi. Into embi yayikukuba wayeziva enetyala ubomi bakhe bonke. Ke abafazi bacinga ukuba ndingcolisiwe. andifanelekanga. Babesoyika ukuba kukho umntu oza kubaqonda. Bazimela bazenza bancinci. Yaye le mvakalelo yokuziva benetyala yokuba ubomi eneneni abusabufanelanga ubomi babo ngenxa yokuba babexhatshazwe kakhulu. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba yayiyeyona nto imbi kwaba bafazi. Kwaye bathi ngomsebenzi wabo, abawubonisa rhoqo ngooLwesithathu, lo msebenzi wezopolitiko, ukuba utshintsho lwatshitshiswa entlokweni yabo kwaye baqonda ukuba andinatyala, kodwa abantu abanoxanduva, abenzi bobubi, banetyala kwaye le nto ijika entloko. Olu tshintsho luya kuthi ke likukhulule kwiimvakalelo zakho zokuba netyala. Kwaye ndifumanisa oko kuchukumisa kakhulu. Kwaye eJamani ndadibana nomfundi oselula owayefunda. Leyo yayiyenye yeentetho zam zokuqala eMetzingen kwikholeji yokulungiselela ngo-2010. Umfundi osemncinci weza waza wakhala wathi loo nto yambangela ngokwenene. Nantso ke into endilunyukiswe ngayo. Kodwa wathi kuhle ukuba ahlale de kube sekupheleni, ukuba uchukumiseke kakhulu ngaba basindileyo, ukuba nawe ubone le filimu. Kwaye uthi uxhatshazwe kusapho lwakhe kwaye intliziyo yakhe izele yinzondo. Kodwa uyabona ukuba la mabhinqa athuthuzelayo akanantiyo kuwo. Kwaye ufuna ukuya apho naye. Kwaye ngoko wandibulela izihlandlo ezininzi waza kamva wabhala iileta. La mava asoloko endinika ulwalathiso. Amaxesha amaninzi ndidibana namanina aselula athe axhatshazwa nawo. Kwaye bathi bahlala besibulela ngomsebenzi wethu. Ndicinga ukuba yiloo nto ndiqinisekile ukuba lo msebenzi wokufundisa ubaluleke kakhulu kuthi. Ngoku ekubeni thina, onke amabhinqa angoontamo-lukhuni, sonke, kuquka namadoda, sifumana oku kuthotywa. Loo nto inento yokwenza kakhulu nokuthotywa isidima, ininzi yokwenza nobundlobongela. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba ubomi buqhubeke emva koko. Yiyo loo nto la mabhinqa asaphilayo omelele kangangokuba aqhubeke ebalisa ibali lawo. Kwaye bonke baqinisekile, ndicinga ukuba, uhlobo lwenkululeko yokungabi namandla ababeziva ngelo xesha. Kwaye ngoku unokwenza ngokukhutheleyo kwaye enze into ngokwakhe. Ndiyakholelwa ukuba sonke siyayidinga loo nto njengabantu.
Linda [00:36:07] Ndikwacinga ukuba yinyani, intle kakhulu ukuba uyenza loo nto. Ungayifumana phi enye? Ngaphambi nje kokuba ndilibale kwakhona – ungandwendwela phi iComfort Women Museum? Kwaye ungabona kwakhona "umfazi othuthuzelayo", kukho enye kwaMowabhi, mhlawumbi unokundixelela ngokufutshane apho unokufumaneka khona.
UNataly [00:36:23] Ewe, sibeke umfanekiso oqingqiweyo woXolo, obangele ihlazo elininzi kwaye umsebenzi wethu ubuhamba kakuhle ukusukela ngoko. Ngoko ngenxa yezi zohlwayo ngurhulumente waseJapan kwaye emva koko xa isithili saseMitte sifuna ukususa umfanekiso oqingqiweyo kunye nokuba yimpumelelo kangakanani ukuwukhusela. Isanyamezeleka, kodwa iseBirkenstrasse, kwikona yeBremer Strasse nakufutshane ne-U Bahnhof Birkenstrasse. Kwaye iimitha ezimbalwa kude yiKorea Association kunye neComfort Women Museum. Kukwakho nesikhululo sika-U kunye ne-S Bahn Ring Bahn Westhafen kufutshane eQuitzowStraße 103.
ULinda [00:37:14] Kuhle ukwazi, ngokuqinisekileyo ndiza kudlula ndibone “umfazi othuthuzelayo” ongajongiyo, ndimbone kakhulu, bendihlala kwaMowabhi. Kodwa imyuziyam. Ndandingazi nokuba kukho imyuziyam malunga nalo. Sasinemincili. Natalie, liliphi icebiso onokuthi ulinike abantu abafuna ukusebenzela ubulungisa bembali kunye nomsebenzi wokukhumbuza, kodwa mhlawumbi abazi ukuba baqale phi okanye njani?
UNataly [00:37:35] Ewe, ndicinga ukuba ufuna umhlobo kuqala. Awunakuyenza le nto uwedwa. Abantu abathathu okanye abane ngokwenene banele ekuqaleni. Kwaye kule mihla unokufikelela kubantu abaninzi ngokukhawuleza ngokusebenzisa imidiya yoluntu, kodwa nemibutho eyahlukeneyo inokunxibelelana kwaye ndicinga ukuba iya kukhula ngokuhamba kwexesha. Ngoko ke wonke umntu okhoyo uza nezihlobo ezilishumi kwaye oko kuphindaphindeka. Yiyo loo nto ifanelekile ke ngoko, umzekelo, nathi sibe namathandabuzo avela eJamani ukuba besijongene nale nto iminyaka engama-30 kwaye phakathi sathi ithini inqaku lotyikityo, ithini inqaku loxwebhu lwezikhalazo? Loo nto ayincedi kwaphela. Urhulumente waseJapan akaqondi kakuhle. Bacela uxolo, kodwa ngokuhanahanisa nangokunganyanisekiyo. Awuxolisi. Sagqibela ngelo xesha ukucela uxolo. Uxolo olunjalo aluzi kunye namagama athi "hayi" kwaye akukho mbuyekezo esemthethweni, kodwa ubufuna ukuhlawula umvuzo wokugula. Imali yokuphilisa Igama elithi imbuyekezo. Abafuni ukwenza nayiphi na imbuyekezo esemthethweni. Kwaye ke, koku kuzilahlela. Kodwa sinalo olu ngquzulwano ne-Peace City. Wonke umsebenzi wethu kule minyaka ingama-30 idlulileyo awubanga lilize. Xa ufumene inkxaso eninzi Kwaye ngokunjalo. Ngokuqhelekileyo isizukulwana sesibini asifiki. Xa oomama okanye abazali bebandakanyeka, nabo bayazihlukanisa. Kodwa ngoMfanekiso woXolo ikwangabantwana nabahlobo babo. Kodwa babebaninzi ngokwenene abantwana. Bangaphezu kwama-300 abaqhankqalazi abebehlanganisene emini. Sifumene abantu abasayiniweyo abayi-12.000 ngeentsuku ezimbini. Ke ngoku ndiyabona ukuba akukho nto yasimahla. Sisoloko sihamba. Yiyo loo nto ibizwa ngokuba yintshukumo. Ukunyakaza kubalulekile kwaye yonke incoko, yonke indibano. Ndiyakholwa ukuba bonke bebekwicala lethu.
Linda [00:39:53] Ewe, ngokuqinisekileyo. Yiyo loo nto iligama eliphambili elilungileyo. Yiyo loo nto sinale podcast. Phakathi kwezinye izinto, ukuze nathi sibe negalelo kuyo. Umba obalulekileyo kukuba oku akulityalwa. Ewe, ekugqibeleni unokuba nengcebiso malunga nendlela esinokunceda ngayo ngokubanzi kubomi bethu bemihla ngemihla ukuze siqinisekise ukuba amabali amabhinqa athuthuzelayo, kodwa namanye amaqela alityelweyo okanye ngamanye amaxesha avelisiweyo, akalityalwa.
Nataly [00:40:16] Ngoku sineprojekthi ebizwa ngokuba yiZikhumbuzo ezinamandla, uLuntu oluLomeleleyo oluchasana nobuhlanga kwaye iprojekthi ixhaswa ngemali yi-Federal Agency for Civic Education. Kwaye mna ngokobuqu ndiyiyile iprojekthi ngaloo ndlela. Yonke into endiye ndadibana nayo ibonisa le ngcwele, indlela eyamiswa ngayo, okwenzekayo kuyo, into endingayaziyo ngaphambili, into eyenzekayo apho. Kwaye bayayinxibelelanisa. Kwakungenxa yolu ngquzulwano apho ngequbuliso sanxibelelana noluntu olwahlukeneyo. Ngoko uluntu lwase-Armenia lwalwela ukuqatshelwa kokubulawa kwabantu okanye i-Alevi okanye i-Dersim Cultural Centre okanye iSikhumbuzo saseAfrika okanye i-Second Life Berlin. Zonke ezi ndawo zoluntu, iSinti kunye namaRomany kwaye sonke sinabo, ngamnye kubo, kunye noluntu oluninzi, olulwela ukuqondwa. Kwaye ke sonke sadibana kancinci kwaye yinjongo yethu elandelayo, ukuba sizilwele ngokwethu, abantu abangathathi ntweni, sonke, ukulwa nonxunguphalo kunye neenkumbulo zethu, ukuba nathi sihlangane ukuze iinkumbulo zethu zamkelwe. eJamani iba yinxalenye yembali yaseJamani njengeJamani. Oko kusincedile kakhulu - ndingahlala ndicebisa ukuba - ukuhlala sinxibelelana kwaye sikhuthaze ubumbano. Asinamali, sinayo into esinayo. Lulwazi lwethu, amava ethu kunye nothando lwethu esibelana ngalo namanye amaqela. Kwaye intle ngokwenene indlela esikhuthazana ngayo.
Linda [00:42:13] Mhle kakhulu wonke umntu ophaya, fumana abahlobo ukuba ufuna ukusebenza. Utsho kakuhle kakhulu. Ndingayithetha loo nto. Yaba sisiphelo esihle kwisiqendu sokuqala sepodcast kolu ngcelele. Nathalie, ndicinga ukuba isihloko sokugcina sihle. Singakwazi ukuxoxa ngayo iiyure, kodwa nabani na onomdla kufuneka ngokuqinisekileyo ayeke nge-Beckenstrasse kwaye ujonge www.emuseum. Kwaye enkosi, Natalie, ngexesha lakho. Andazi noba usekunye nam.
UNataly [00:42:44] Ewe. Hayi hayi. Ewe, enkosi kakhulu ngale ncoko imnandi kunye nento eqhutywe ngovelwano kakhulu. Kwaye ndonwabile ukuba sinokuvusa umdla ongakumbi kubaphulaphuli, o.k.t. abaphulaphuli.
Linda [00:43:02] Ndiyabulela nawe kwaye ndikunqwenelela usuku oluhle, usuku lokuzalwa loMphathiswa. Enkosi ngaloo nto. Enkosi.
가닥 GADAG | Isiqendu 2 sePodcast (Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn noLinda Hamoui)
Esi siqendu kunye ne-Thủy-Tiên simalunga, phakathi kwezinye izinto, imingeni evela ekusebenzeni kwintlangano yobugcisa, i-activism kunye nomsebenzi woluntu. Ulawula njani ukunikela ingqalelo ekhethekileyo kuzinzo kunye nokuzikhathalela? Siphinde sathetha malunga nendlela ukuzibandakanya kobugcisa kunye nemfazwe yaseVietnam kunokuba negalelo ekuphiliseni nasekuqhubeni umonzakalo ohambelana nawo.
Ngombhalo opheleleyo wesiqendu, cofa apha ngezantsi:
ngaphezulu
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ewe, ndicinga ukuba umsebenzi wobudlelwane wawubalulekile. Ukuba kukho ungquzulwano, ngoko sibone ukuba sinokubona njani malunga neengxabano kunye nendlela esinokuzifumana ngayo izisombululo kunye kwaye silungise izinto. Yaye yintoni kanye kanye ekufanele ukuba uyazi? Kwaye ukuba kukho indawo yokuba kwaye hayi kuphela. Eyona nto iphambili kukuba ngoku senza iminyhadala efana nezi, kodwa imalunga nobudlelwane phakathi kwabantu.
Linda Hamoui Wamkelekile. NdinguLinda Hamoui kwaye ndonwabile kakhulu ukubamba olu chungechunge lwepodcast enamacandelo amathathu. Ngenxa yokuba le podcast iyinxalenye yeprojekthi ye-GADAG, iprojekthi ka-Oyoun exhaswa ngemali yiLottostiftung Berlin, inkqubo yakhe yoluntu eyenzeka ukususela ngo-Matshi 24 ukuya kwi-30 ka-Aprili, i-2024. Igama lesiKorea elithi 가닥 Gadag lithetha umsonto omde osuka kumsonto omkhulu. Ngalo msonto sidibanisa imisonto yeenkumbulo zemfazwe, yabasetyhini, imizimba enqabileyo kunye nemizimba ecatshangelwayo. Injongo kukudala indawo apho amabali ngamnye okusinda kwimbali ye-postcolonial yaseKorea, iVietnam, iJapan kunye ne-diaspora zikhanyiswa. Amabali asoloko egqunyelelwe bubundlobongela bamakholoniyali noosolusapho baseNtshona. Kwesi siqendu sepodcast ndijongana ngokuyintloko ngesihloko esichukumisayo nesibalulekileyo, oko kukuthi inkcubeko yokukhumbula kunye neengxelo ezihlala zingahoywa okanye zicinezelwe kwimbali yeemfazwe kunye neziphumo zazo. Ugxininiso lwam kumabali angabonakali kwiingxelo ezinkulu zabasetyhini, abantu abanobuqhetseba kunye namaqela athathelwe ingqalelo ngenxa yokuba ukubandezeleka kunye nokomelela kunqabile ukuba kube yinxalenye yememori edibeneyo. Kwaye sasisele sirekhode isiqendu noNataly Han osuka kuMbutho waseKorea. Namhlanje kukho isiqendu sesibini kolu ngcelele kwaye ndithetha noThủy-Tiên Nguyễn. Mholo. Kumnandi ukuba ulapha. Unjani namhlanje?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Hi. Enkosi ngokuba nam apha. Ndiziva ndilungile. Kodwa ndonwabile kancinci kuba isihloko sisondele kum, nangenxa yeembekiselo zam kunye nebhayografi yosapho. Kodwa ndikhangele phambili kwincoko yethu.
Linda Hamoui Ewe, enkosi kakhulu ngokuthatha ixesha elininzi, ngakumbi xa kufikwa kwizihloko ezinje, akunikwanga ukuba uya kufumana umntu ozimisele ngokwenene ukuthetha ngayo. Kodwa ndiyathemba ukuba siza kugqitha kuyo. Kwaye ukuba kukho into eninzi kakhulu, nantoni na, ngoko uhlala wamkelekile ukuba unxibelelane nayo, oko kuluncedo kwipodcast ukuba ayiphili. Kodwa ngaphambi kokuba sitsibele ngqo esihlokweni, mhlawumbi ungazazisa ngokufutshane ukuba ungubani na. Wenza ntoni? Ukuze abaphulaphuli bethu bafumane umfanekiso okhawulezayo ngawe?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Igama lam ndinguThủy-Tiên. Andisebenzisi izimelabizo. Ndingu-Vietnamese diasporic. Abazali bam bobabini basuka eVietnam baza babalekela eJamani emva kwemfazwe yaseVietnam. Ndihlala eBerlin kwaye ndingumququzeleli woluntu, umlingisi, ukwenza ubugcisa kwaye ndisisithethi semfundo yezopolitiko. Izinto nje ezahlukeneyo. Ewe.
Linda Hamoui Ewe, sele sirekhode isiqendu sepodcast. Hamam Talk, enye ipodcast yam, sele imisiwe. Andazi, kwiminyaka emithathu eyadlulayo, iminyaka emibini kwaye yiyo loo nto ihlekisayo ukuba sibonane kwakhona kulo mongo. Mhlawumbi siza kuqala ngalo mbuzo ulandelayo: Ingaba ukuzazisi kwakho njengomntu osuka eVietnamese diaspora kube nefuthe njani kwindlela oyila ngayo kunye nokutolika ubugcisa ngokwakho, kuba uyasebenza kweli candelo lomsebenzi.
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ndicinga ukuba kubugcisa bam ndihlala ndisebenza ngale ndlela ye-autobiographical okanye i-autofictional. Kwaye ngokuchanekileyo, ndicinga ukuba oko kuchaphazela ubugcisa bam kakhulu. Kwakhona zeziphi izihloko endinomdla kuzo okanye indlela endiqhuba ngayo izihloko ezithile okanye izinto ezibuhlungu okanye ngokunxulumene, ewe, ukukhumbula kunye nokuziqhelanisa.
Linda Hamoui Kwaye ngokwenene uqalise njani ngezobugcisa?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Umbuzo omhle. Ndicinga ukuba bendinomdla kuyo kwangethuba, njengomntwana okanye okwishumi elivisayo. Bekukade kukho into eninzi nabazali bam. Ubukelwe iParis ngobusuku, umboniso weqonga waseVietnam, kodwa uhlala iiyure ezintandathu okanye ezisixhenxe okanye into. Eyona nto iphambeneyo kukuba baninzi abantu, ngakumbi abantu baseSouth Vietnam, abathe babalekela kwindawo ebizwa ngokuba yi-USA kwaye benza lo mboniso apho, baninzi abantu abaculayo, abantu abaninzi benza imizobo kunye nemidlalo. Ndacinga ukuba oko kuchukumisa ngokwenene, ngakumbi kuba bajongana neenkumbulo ezininzi zemfazwe kunye nokulahlekelwa likhaya kunye nazo zonke izihloko zeemvakalelo. Kwaye kwangaxeshanye, iParis ngobusuku ivaliwe eVietnam. Yiloo nto kanye eyandichukumisa kakhulu kwaye ndicinga ukuba ngaxa lithile ndaqala ukwenza i-thiyetha kwaye ndenza uqeqesho kwaye ndadanisa kwaye ewe, kwaye ngandlela-thile yenzeka ngolo hlobo, hayi ngendlela yemfundo yakudala okanye nantoni na efana naleyo bit, DIY kwaye kakhulu kwindawo ezimeleyo.
Linda Hamoui Ngaba ubusoloko unendlela yobutsha-ntliziyo okanye yayiyindlela eyayiyiyo? Heyi, ndiziva ndifuna ukwenza uhlobo oluthile lwethiyetha okanye ukwenza ubugcisa.
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ke ndiyacinga, ngakumbi kwindawo yethiyetha emhlophe, kuhlala kungekho ndawo yokujongana nemixholo ethile yezopolitiko okanye nantoni na elolo hlobo, okanye ukuba kunjalo, ndicinga ukuba inobuqhophololo. Ke ndithetha ukuba yonke into okanye izinto ezininzi zezopolitiko. Ekuqaleni ndandisonwaba kakhulu ngokudlala nokwenza iqonga lomdaniso emva koko ndaqonda ukuba ndifuna ukuphuhlisa ezinye izihloko kubugcisa okanye kwimidlalo yeqonga nemiboniso kwaye ndibhale ezinye izinto endinokuthi ngandlel’ ithile ndinxulumane nazo ngakumbi. Kodwa nabantu endifuna ukufikelela nabo ngayo.
Linda Hamoui Ubusele ukhankanye ngokufutshane kwintshayelelo yakho ukuba abazali bakho babalekela eJamani ngenxa yemfazwe yaseVietnam. Imbali kunye nenkumbulo yemfazwe yaseVietnam ikuphembelele kangakanani? Ngoko malunga nesazisi kunye nomsebenzi wakho? Ngaba kukho naziphi na iingxelo okanye imiba yemfazwe oyifaka kubugcisa bakho?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ewe, kuba ndiyakholelwa ukuba ngenxa yokuba iimbono ezithile okanye amabali okuphunyuka kwabantu ababizwa ngokuba ngamaphenyane enziwe angabonakali okanye kukho ukungabikho kokucubungula, njl., Ndingathanda ngokwenene ukwenza oku kubonakale ngakumbi. Kwangaxeshanye, kunzima kakhulu kuba andifuni ukuveza abazali bam kunye nebali labo lokubaleka kakhulu. Kwakhona ukhuseleko. Kwaye ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye ndinomdla kakhulu kwizihloko ezinje: kutheni abantu, okanye abantu baseVietnam, babaleke, kwenzeka ntoni kwezi ndlela zokubaleka okanye ukuba bahamba njani emva koko, amava abuhlungu agqithiselwa kwizizukulwana ezilandelayo. Kwaye kwangaxeshanye, ndingathanda ngokwenene ukwenza kubonakale ukungabonakali okucacileyo kunye noxinzelelo olukhoyo malunga nesi sihloko. Ewe, kutsha nje bendinemidlalo yethiyetha eSaigon, eVietnam, kwaye andikwazanga ukuzisa izinto ezininzi eqongeni ngendlela endifuna ngayo. Ngoko ndibe nentsebenzo ye-hybridi kunye ne-Việt Đức Phạm, i-Quang Nguyễn-Xuân kunye no-Anika Baluran Schäfer eSaigon naseCologne ngexesha elifanayo kwaye sele ndenze iinxalenye ezithile eJamani kwaye ndizise kwinqanaba, umzekelo eBerlin. Kwaye ewe, ngandlel 'ithile kwakubuhlungu kakhulu ukuyibhala kwakhona ngolo hlobo eVietnam okanye ukubhala malunga noku kungabonakali, ucinezelo, kunokuba malunga namabali athile ayinxalenye ye-autobiographical, ngokuyinxenye ezenzekelayo. Ngokuchanekileyo. Kodwa leyo yindlela yam yokuyicubungula yonke, kodwa ngokudibeneyo, ngakumbi xa ndisiva indlela abanye abantu baseVietnam base-diasporic beza kum okanye kuthi emva kokusebenza kwaye batsho ukuba Bayifumene njani ichukumisa.
Linda Hamoui Lo ibinokuba ngumbuzo wam olandelayo wokuba yintoni le ngxelo okanye imbono malunga nomsebenzi wakho, ngakumbi apha eJamani, malunga nezi zihloko. Ngaba unengxelo entle kakhulu okanye kunokuba nzima ukuyidlulisela loo nto?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ndicinga ukuba ubukhulu becala yayingabantu abacalucalulo abajongana kakhulu nezi zihloko abandinika ingxelo abayifumana ichukumisa kakhulu kwaye banokunxulumana nayo kakuhle kakhulu. Ngoko ke nabantu abacwangcisiweyo abangenalo naluphi na uqhagamshelwano lwaseViet okanye nantoni na enjalo. Kwaye kwabo banento eninzi yokwenza kunye nokukhumbula kunye nokusebenza kunye ewe, ukhathalelo oludibeneyo kwindawo ethile. Ewe, ndicinga ukuba ndinethamsanqa ukuba ekusebenzeni kwam ukuza kuthi ga ngoku, xa ndijongana kakhulu nezihloko ezinje kwaye ndizise eqongeni, bambalwa kakhulu abantu abamhlophe kubaphulaphuli kwaye ewe, ngakumbi iBIPOC, kukho abantu abanobuhlanga ikakhulu jongana nezihloko ezifanayo kakhulu.
ULinda Hamoui Sirekhoda le podcast njengenxalenye yeprojekthi ye-GADAG, emalunga neenkumbulo kunye neemfazwe kunye nokuxabisa iingxelo zamaqela angathathi hlangothi. Ingaba umsebenzi wakho unegalelo njani kule projekthi kwaye uwasebenzisa kangakanani amabali obuqu ngenkumbulo edibeneyo?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ewe, njengenxalenye ye-GADAG ndinethamsanqa lokukwazi ukuba kwi-ArtistLab. Ndivuya kakhulu ngayo. Ndiyenza kwakhona kwi-constellation efanayo, kunye neQuang, Phạm kunye no-Anika eBerlin. Kwaye siphinde sibe nentsebenzo yethu nge-21 ka-Epreli kwaye njengenxalenye yeLebhu yethu yamaGcisa sikwajongene neenkumbulo ezininzi kwaye ke andifuni ukunika abaphangi abaninzi ndisekwisigaba esisenzayo uphando oluninzi kunye nokuzama izinto. Kwaye ngokuchanekileyo. Kodwa sikwanomdla kwizihloko. Inkumbulo enjalo yento eyayikhe yayikho okanye iinkumbulo zento mhlawumbi engekenzeki. Kwaye nokuba asisoloko sisebenza ngokuzihambelayo, sisasebenza ngokweembono zethu kunye neenyani zobomi bethu. Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye malunga nokukhumbula ngokudibeneyo: Ndicinga ukuba ngamanye amaxesha, okanye kwintsebenzo yethu enye kunyaka ophelileyo eBerlin, siphinde sasebenza kakhulu ngezinto zogcino lomntu siqu, ngeevidiyo kunye neefoto kwaye sabhala kwaye sibalisa amabali kubo. Kwaye ewe, ndisakhumbula umntu owathi emva kokusebenza kwethu, wow, inokuba libali lam. Inokuba ziifoto zam zobuntwana okanye iividiyo zam kunye nom. Kwaye umntu uthe semba kakhulu kwiinkumbulo ezidibeneyo kwaye sakhetha izinto ezinjalo kwaye sabhala amabali amatsha kubo kwaye sijongana nezihloko ezithile. Kwaye ewe, ndiyifumene intle kakhulu, ichukumisa kakhulu ukuva. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba ndiyibonakalisa kakuhle indlela endikonwabela ngayo ukusebenza. Ewe, ngokuchanekileyo, ndiyathanda ukusebenza njengentsomi ngokupheleleyo kunye nezinto ezinje kwaye ndibhale nabaphi na abalinganiswa okanye andicingi ukuba kufuneka zichasane konke konke. Kodwa ewe, ndifumana ukukhumbula okudibeneyo kusisixhobo esinamandla kwaye, ngaphezu kwayo yonke, indlela emangalisayo yokukhumbula izinto ngokulula. Kwaye oko akulahlekanga. Ngoko.
Linda Hamoui Kwaye ndiyakwazi ukucinga, ngakumbi ngezihloko ezinzima kangaka, ukuba yenza into kuwe. Kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo kukho iintsuku apho ucinga, kulungile, andazi ngokuthe ngqo, ndisenokungakwazi ukuyiphatha, ininzi kakhulu. Njani, uhlangabezana njani nayo? Ngezo zinto, ngamaxesha anjalo kunye neentsuku ezinjalo?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ewe, yahlukile. Ke, ke, ubomi bam bunzima ngokwaneleyo njengoko bunjalo kwaye kufuneka ndijongane nezihloko ezinje. Ndicinga ukuba kuyandinceda ukuba noluntu oluninzi, ukuze ndibe nabantu abakufutshane nam. Kwakhona yahluke kakhulu. Ke ayingobantu baseVietnam base-diasporic kuphela, kodwa nabanye abantu abakhohlakeleyo, abantu abadlulayo, abanye abantu abanobuhlanga. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba kulungile ngokwenene ukuziva ukhathalelo oluhlangeneyo ngolo hlobo. Ingakumbi xa ndingaphilanga. Ewe, andazi nokuba ndingathetha ngakumbi ngayo. Ke kukho izinto ezininzi, kodwa kukwangumceli mngeni omninzi. Ndicinga ngemeko nganye ndijonge into endiyidingayo kwaye yintoni enokuba luncedo kum kunye nendlela endinokuthi ndilulame ngayo kwaye ndiphumle. Kodwa amaxesha amaninzi iba ngabantu nje abandingqongileyo. Usapho olukhethiweyo, abantu basekuhlaleni. Ewe.
Linda Hamoui Kwaye kuthekani ngale mingeni evela ekusebenzeni ekudibaneni kobugcisa, ubutshantliziyo kunye nomsebenzi woluntu, ngokukodwa ngokuphindaphindiweyo ngokumalunga nokuzinza kunye nokuzinyamekela?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ewe, ndiyacinga mna, Um. Kulungile, andinaso isisombululo. Ndixakeke kakhulu ndicingana nabantu abaninzi. Umsebenzi wobudlelwane ubaluleke kakhulu kum ukuze wenze yonke into iqhubeke. Ngoko. Kuzo zonke iindawo, ngokwenene kwindawo ye-activism kunjalo, ukuze ungabi nokudinwa. Kodwa nakwinkqubo yoluntu. Ewe, ndicinga ukuba umsebenzi wobudlelwane ubaluleke ngokwenene xa kukho ungquzulwano, ukubona indlela esinokuthetha ngayo ngongquzulwano kunye nendlela esinokuzifumana ngayo izisombululo kunye nokusebenza ngezinto. Kwaye kuthetha ukuthini ukuphendula kunye nokuthatha uxanduva kulo mxholo? Kuthetha ukuthini ukunyamekela kulo mongo? Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye kum, umsebenzi wobudlelwane uquka ukwazana ngokufanelekileyo. Kwaye kukho indawo yaloo nto kwaye kungekhona nje ukulungelelanisa iidemos ezithile kwi-activism, umzekelo, ukubona oko kuphela kwesizathu, okanye ewe, kwisakhiwo soluntu. Ngoko kanye ukuba ayisiyiyo nje loo nto, eyona nto iphambili kukuba senze iziganeko ezifana nezi, kodwa imalunga nobudlelwane phakathi kwabantu.
Linda Hamoui Kwaye ucinga ukuba ukuzibandakanya kwakho kobugcisa kunye nemfazwe yaseVietnam kunokuba negalelo ekunyangeni kwaye, ngaphezu kwayo yonke into, ukujongana nokwenzakala okunxulumene nayo?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Amava am aye kukuba ngamanye amaxesha abantu abathethi ngemfazwe yaseVietnam kakhulu, umzekelo nabazali babo okanye amanye amalungu osapho lwebhayoloji. Ngaba ngokuqondakalayo kwakubuhlungu kakhulu okanye ngenxa yokuba, ewe, abantu baye bafumana ezinye iindlela zokuhlangabezana nako. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba ubugcisa bunjalo. Yeyona ndlela ilungileyo yokukwazi ukuthetha izinto ezithile, nokuba ngamazwi, kodwa nangentshukumo okanye ngokubonwayo okanye izandi. Ndithetha ukuba, nakwisizukulwana sesibini esinjengam, esingazange sibe namava emfazwe ngokuthe ngqo. Nangona kunjalo, kukho izinto ezithile eziye zagqithiswa okanye ziya kudluliselwa kuthi. Ndinemvakalelo yokuba ubugcisa bunokuba yindawo entle yokulungisa izinto ezithile, kodwa kwakhona. Ewe, ukuziva ubonwa okanye ukwazi ukunxibelelana nabanye abantu emva koko.
ULinda Hamoui kunye. Ngaba kukho imiba ethile yemfazwe eVietnam ongathanda ukuyiqaqambisa emsebenzini wakho, ukuze ngokuqinisekileyo ingene kwimbono yoluntu kunye nenkumbulo edibeneyo, kodwa akufanele ilityalwe?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Kum, kwelinye icala, ngawo onke amabali okuphunyuka kunye nento eza nayo, oko kukuthi ukungabonakali kunye nokunyanzeliswa okuhamba nayo. Kodwa kwakhona ngubani owayebandakanyeke ngokwenene kule mfazwe okanye okwenzekayo malunga nobundlobongela obuphathelele kwezesondo kunye nodlwengulo, ngokuchasene nabasetyhini kunye namantombazana aseVietnam, abantwana nje, umzekelo ngamajoni aseKorea okanye yintoni indima eyenziwa yiChina kunye namanye amazwe kunye nezizwe kunye nokunye kwaye kuncinci ukuphononongwa kwakhona ukuza kuthi ga ngoku kwaye akukho mbuyekezo. Kwaye ke kunjalo, into ebizwa ngokuba yi-USA nayo idlale indima enkulu kakhulu. Um. Ndicinga ukuba yiyo loo nto abantu abaninzi besithi imfazwe yase-US eVietnam. Hmmm. Ngokuchanekileyo. Ngaphezulu kwayo yonke into, lo mba wokuba i-USA akufuneki ibhiyozelwe nje, ngenxa yokuba ngandlel 'ithile balwa kwicala le-Vietnam yase-Vietnam njalo njalo, kodwa kunokuqonda ukuba yenzeke njani kwasekuqaleni kwaye ewe, kodwa ngubani onoxanduva. Ke ewe, uxanduva oluhlangeneyo, ndingathanda ukwenza ukuba oko kubonakale ngakumbi.
Linda Hamoui Kwaye yintoni enokuba nomdla kum kwakhona: ngawaphi amathemba obuqu okanye iminqweno onayo xa ujonge kwikamva? Ngokumalunga nokuza kwimfazwe yase-US eVietnam, kodwa ngakumbi kwi-diaspora yaseVietnam nangaphaya.
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ndicinga ukuba ndingathanda iindawo ezininzi zokuthetha. Ndingathanda izithuba ezininzi ukuze ndikwazi ukubakho, ukukwazi ukucubungula izinto ezithile. Ndingathanda ukuqhubekeka ngakumbi kwaye. Akusekho ngcinezelo kwaye akusekho nokungabonakali. Kwaye ndingathanda ukuba neencoko ezinje. Ngoko cross-uluntu. Ke, umzekelo, into ebendiyithetha ngaphambili, yeyiphi indima edlalwe ngamajoni aseKorea ngokunxulumene nobundlobongela obuphathelele kwezesondo kwimfazwe yaseVietnam. Kodwa kunye neengxoxo eziqhelekileyo kunye nabantu abanje okanye malunga nokungalingani kwamandla phakathi kwabantu base-East Asia kunye namadoda ase-Southeast Asia.
Linda Hamoui Kwaye ndiyathetha, ngokuqinisekileyo baninzi abantu abanokuthi mhlawumbi bangaphumi kuluntu lwaseVietnam, kodwa ngubani osenokufuna ukubandakanyeka. Kodwa hayi abantu basekuhlaleni. Ngaba unawo nawaphi na amacebiso ngendlela yokuqalisa? Okanye mhlawumbi kukho izibonelelo okanye imibutho ethile, njl.
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ngoko ukufumana amaqela amatsha ntliziyo ngokwakho kunye nokusebenzisana namanye amaqela amatsha ntliziyo. Kum ayisiyomfazwe yaseVietnam kuphela, ngumlo omkhulu wonke. Yiyo loo nto ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba oku kwenzeke kulo lonke uluntu nakwizihloko zonke. Ke ukuba abantu abanako okanye abafuni ukuseka amaqela amatshantliziyo ngokwabo, banokujoyina amaqela akhoyo. Kwaye kukho, umzekelo, iMigrantifa eBerlin okanye kwezinye izixeko kunye neendawo. Ngokuchanekileyo, kwaye kukho ewe ngokuthe ngqo kwaye ngokuthe ngqo kumaqela anjalo aseVietnam. Ewe, nantso ke into, kancinci ngobutshantliziyo. Izinto ezininzi azinakuboniswa esidlangalaleni kuba zinokukhawuleza zibe yingozi. Kodwa ewe, mhlawumbi ukuhlangana nje okanye ukubuza, ukubuza, heyi, ngaba nawe unomdla kwezi zihloko? Kwaye ke mhlawumbi izibonelelo zingabelana kunye nokudluliselwa kolwazi kunye nezenzo zinokucwangciswa? Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye ngoku ngokukodwa malunga neVietnam. Eyona nto inomdla kuthi kwi-diaspora, okanye kufuneka sibe nomdla kuthi, ngamaqela amatshantliziyo eVietnam, umzekelo, abenza umsebenzi omninzi kubulungisa bemozulu kunye nokusingqongileyo kwaye bafumana ubundlobongela obucacileyo belizwe. Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo oku kukwanxulunyaniswa neminye imizabalazo, kuquka imizabalazo yemveli. Okanye izihloko ezifana nePalestina, ubumbano, apho abantu abaninzi baseVietnam be-diasporic banomdla, okanye apho kukho imizabalazo kunye neVietnam, kodwa kwangaxeshanye kuphela ngendlela eyahlukileyo, kuba akukho lungelo lokuhlanganisana kwaye akukho nkululeko yokuthetha. ngoko Hmm, ewe. Owu, kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo iqela lam, haha.
Linda Hamoui Haha, bendiza kuthi, liza nini iqela lakho.
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Haha, ulibele. Ngokuchanekileyo. Ukuba ungathanda ukusixhasa, sibizwa ngokuba yi-Spicy Ginkgo Collective, siliqela lobugcisa kunye nokuxhotyiswa, kunye noQuang kunye ne-meilan. Ewe, senza izinto ezahlukeneyo. Ke siye saba neendibano zocweyo zokuyila isithuba esingaphezu konyaka ngoku kubantu abacalucalulo abangenalo okanye ukufikelela nzima kubugcisa okanye iindawo zoluntu. Kuya kubakho umboniso wokugqibela okanye uhlobo oluthile lomboniso wobugcisa kunye nobusuku bokusebenza. Kodwa sikwasenza izinto ezinje ngokubalisa amabali, iiseshini zekaraoke, apho abantu banokubalisa ababo, abantu abanobuhlanga, amabali abo baze baxelele ukuba kutheni bekhethe le ngoma kwaye banokucula ikaraoke okanye bacule nabantu. Sikwaququzelela izinto ezifana nokubhiyozela uMnyhadala weNyanga, apho kukho iindibano zocweyo malunga neekeyiki zenyanga njalo njalo. Ke zonke izinto ezinje, ndiyathemba izinto ezimnandi kakhulu. Kodwa sisoloko sinombulelo ngayo nayiphi na inkxaso, iminikelo okanye ezinye izixhobo ezifana neengcebiso kumagumbi ngandlel’ ithile asimahla okanye afikelelekayo. Okanye abantu abaqaphelayo abanomdla wokuhamba nathi kwimicimbi, ukunakekelwa kwabantwana.
Linda Hamoui Ke uyivile: qiniseka ukuba ulandela umsebenzi weqela kwaye ujonge. mhlawumbi ukugqiba nje. Yintoni ongathanda ukuyixelela abaphulaphuli? Yintoni ofuna ukuyisusa emsebenzini wakho?
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Ndicinga ukuba kuya kuba kuhle ukuba abantu abandiphulaphulayo bayayisusa into yokuba abantu banomdla wokuzenzela ubugcisa ngokwabo. Kwakhona, ewe, njengokuba, umzekelo, ubulungisa bentlalo ngandlela-thile bunokuqhubela phambili okanye kusetyenzwe ngobugcisa. Ndikwanethemba lokuba abantu bayayisusa inyani yokuba akufuneki udlule kwindlela yemfundo yemveli kunzima kakhulu kwaye kukho imali encinci okanye akukho nto. Kodwa ewe, oku kunokuba yindlela yokudiliza izakhiwo okanye ukuba kunokwenzeka ngaphandle kokuya nakwesiphi na isikolo sobugcisa obunqabileyo, kodwa endaweni yoko wonke umntu unokwenza i-DIY kancinane, kuba loo nto ayithethi nto malunga noku. ixabiso lemisebenzi yobugcisa. Kwaye ndiyacinga, mhlawumbi umnqweno wokugqibela okanye ithemba, yile nto ndinayo kubantu abamameleyo ngoku, ukuba sonke ngandlel 'ithile sihlangane ukuze sibe nenkululeko edibeneyo njengenjongo kwaye sityhalele phambili kwaye silungile omnye komnye kwaye sizikhathalele. Kwaye olo khathalelo oluhlangeneyo luya lugxile ngakumbi kwaye lonke uhlobo lobutshantliziyo lubaluleke kakhulu. Ngoko yonke indima, ngoko kuthetha. Ukuba abantu abasoloko kufuneka balwe ngaphambili kwaye ngandlela-thile baququzelele imiboniso eyiwaka, kodwa kukho ezinye iindima ezininzi ezibaluleke kakhulu esizidingayo sonke ukuze sibe nethemba lokufumana ubulungisa, ngakumbi inkululeko, ngexesha elithile kungekudala. Ezi zezinye iindima ezininzi abantu abanokuba nazo, oko kukuthi abakhathaleli, abaphilisi. Abantu, ababoni. Ngokuchanekileyo.
Linda Hamoui Uyithethe kakuhle loo nto. Ndinethemba elifanayo nangekamva. Nam ndinqwenela kakhulu. Enkosi kakhulu ngexesha lakho. Yayiyincoko emnandi kakhulu; siye sakwazi ukuncokola ngayo kangangeeyure. Ndiyavuya ukubona ukuba yintoni enye oza kuyibona emsebenzini wakho. Kwaye wonke umntu, kuxhomekeke ekubeni le podcast iya kukhutshwa nini, wonke umntu onokuba khona, kubandakanywa nokusebenza nge-21 ka-Epreli, uthe, qiniseka ukuba uyeka nge-Oyoun. Enkosi kwaye ndikunqwenelela okuhle kodwa kwixesha elizayo kwaye ngethemba lokukubona kwakhona kungekudala. Mhlawumbi kwipodcast yam kwakhona.
Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn Kwaye kwisiqendu esilandelayo noNataly.
ULinda Hamoui Ah ewe, injalo kanye, bendiphantse ndayilibala loo nto nam. Ngokuchanekileyo, sele sibuyile kwisiqendu esilandelayo, ke bafana, hlalani nibukele. Kukho isiqendu sesithathu nesokugqibela. Ndikhangele phambili kuyo.
가닥 GADAG | Isiqendu sesi-3 sePodcast (uNataly Han, Thủy-Tiên Nguyễn noLinda Hamoui)
Kwisiqendu samva nje sale podcast, uNataly Han kunye noThủy-Tiên, abaziwa kwiziqendu ezibini zokuqala, badibana ngeli xesha. Bathatha ithuba lokujonga emva ekuqaleni kwepodcast, benze unxibelelwano kwiziqendu zokuqala kwaye babuzane imibuzo. Phakathi kwezinye izinto, bajongana nendlela abalawula ngayo ukubandakanya izihloko ezifana nemfazwe, inkumbulo kunye nesazisi kwi-activism yabo kunye neeprojekthi zobugcisa ngokuchasene nemvelaphi yamava abo ahlukeneyo ngaphakathi kwe-Vietnamese kunye ne-Korean diaspora eJamani.
Ngombhalo opheleleyo wesiqendu, cofa apha ngezantsi:
ngaphezulu
Nataly [00:00:00] Ndiyazi ukuba eKorea, eJapan, andazi ukuba kunjani e-China, kodwa sijongene kakhulu ne-Self-Orientalism. Loo nto ithetha ukuba ubuhlanga obufakwe ngaphakathi okanye lo mnqweno wokuba mhlophe, oko kukuthi, ukuba ngowesizwe esiphuhlileyo. Oku kunamandla kangangokuba njengomntu omhlophe eKorea uphathwa kakuhle, kodwa xa abantu benolusu olumnyama baphathwa kakubi.
Linda [00:00:39] Wamkelekile. NdinguLinda Hamoui kwaye ndiyavuya ukubamba uthotho lwe-podcast enamacandelo amathathu, olukwabandakanya iziqendu ezibini zokuqala zolu luhlu. ogama inkqubo kawonke-wonke eqhuba ukusuka kwi-24 kaMatshi ukuya ku-Epreli 30, i-24 iqhubeka. Kwesi siqendu sepodcast ndijongana nenkcubeko yokukhumbula kunye namabali ahlala engahoywa okanye acinezelwe kwimbali yeemfazwe kunye neziphumo zazo. Namhlanje kukho isiqendu sesithathu kwaye ngelishwa sokugqibela kolu ngcelele. Ndithetha noThủy-Tiên Nguyễn kunye noNataly Han. Sele ndithethile nabo bobabini kwiziqendu ezibini zokuqala kwaye namhlanje kukho isiqendu soluntu aka isiqendu esincinci sokuphindaphinda. Molo, kuhle ukuba ulapha. Unjani namhlanje?
UNataly [00:01:26] Ewe, kulungile. Enkosi! Nam ndiyijonge ngamehlo abomvu incoko.
Thủy-Tiên [00:01:33] Molo. Ewe, nam ndivuya ngokwenene, um. Ndiyavuya ukukubona apha kwakhona, Nataly. Um. Ndiphilile nam.
Linda [00:01:42] Kulungile. Ngokuqinisekileyo uva ngcono kunam, o.k.t. abo bayivileyo imibuzo emibini yokuqala banokuzibuza ukuba ndingubani, njengoko ngoku ndivakala njengoTina Turner. Ndibanjwe yingqele, kodwa ndiyathemba ukuba siza kudlula isiqendu kulungile. Kodwa namhlanje ngokuqinisekileyo iya kuba sisiqendu esonwabisayo kuba ulungiselele imibuzo embalwa, ngakumbi ngalo kamva. Kodwa ngaphambi kokuba siqale, unganceda uzazise ngokufutshane ukuba ungubani na kwaye wenza ntoni.
UNataly [00:02:06] Ewe. Igama lam ndinguNataly Han. Ndibe yi-CEO yoMbutho waseKorea ukususela ngo-2012. Kodwa ewe, ndisebenze eBerlin ukususela ngo-2008 kwaye ndenza iiprojekthi ezahlukeneyo. Kodwa ngoku eyona nto siyixhalabeleyo ngumba wento ekuthiwa yintuthuzelo basetyhini. Kwaye ngenxa yale njongo siye samisa umfanekiso oqingqiweyo woXolo, ohlaselwa kakhulu ngurhulumente waseJapan kwaye kuthiwa ubangela ingxaki enkulu kumgaqo-nkqubo waseJamani wamazwe angaphandle, kwaye saseka neMyuziyam yaseComfort Women.
Thủy-Tiên [00:02:48] Ewe, igama lam ndinguThuy-Tiên. Andisebenzisi izimelabizo kwaye ndingumququzeleli woluntu, umboniso kunye nesithethi semfundo yezopolitiko. Ndenza iqonga lomdaniso kunye nezinto zokuxhobisa. Kwaye ndinobugcisa kunye nokuxhotyiswa ngokubambisana, i-Spicy Ginkgo Collective, kunye neQuang neMeilan, phakathi kwabanye. Ewe, nathi senza izinto ezahlukeneyo. Kwaye ngoku kungekudala nge-12 ka-Epreli, kunye noMbutho waseKorea, umboniso wethu wobugcisa uya kuba seOyoun. Apho siza kuphinda sibonise uvimba wogcino-mpepha ekwenzeni uMfanekiso woXolo, ebesele siwenza kwindlu encinci e-Oyoun. Kwaye kungenjalo ndenza izinto ezahlukeneyo kwizihloko ezahlukeneyo. Kananjalo ququzelela imisitho yesikhumbuzo okanye iidemos, kodwa kunye neendawo zoluntu zamaqela ahlukeneyo ekujoliswe kuwo, kubantu abacalucalulo ngokobuhlanga, abantu abadlulayo, abantu abangoozwilakhe. Ewe.
Linda [00:03:57] Enkosi kakhulu kuye wonke umntu ofuna ukwazi ngakumbi ngawe, ngokuqinisekileyo ndincoma ukuba umamele iziqendu ezibini zokuqala. Ingakumbi nawe, Nataly, siye sathetha kakhulu ngobundlobongela obuphathelele kwezesondo kunye nengcinezelo, kwaye kakhulu malunga nokuthuthuzela abantu basetyhini. Kwaye kwisiqendu sesibini sithethe ngaphezulu kwayo yonke into malunga nokuba unokuba ngumtshayeli njani, umzekelo, kodwa uguqule oku kuhlobo lobugcisa ukuze utsale ingqalelo kwizihloko ezibalulekileyo ezinje ngemfazwe okanye inkcubeko yokukhumbula. Ndingacebisa zombini iziqendu ezinomdla kakhulu. Kwaye namhlanje sifuna ukusebenzisa esi siqendu ukubhekisa kwezi ziqendu zibini kananjalo. Nanimamela iziqendu zomnye phambi kokuba siqale ukurekhoda. Okokuqala, ndingathanda ukwazi: Bekunjani kuwe ukumamela iziqendu? Ukusuka komnye ongaphesheya kwesitrato? Mhlawumbi. Nataly, ungathanda ukuqala?
Nataly [00:04:45] Ewe, ibinomdla kakhulu kuba kudala sisazana. Kodwa mna, ke, sasingazange sibe nalo ixesha kuba sasihlala sidibana kumsitho weprojekthi. Kwaye bekumnandi kakhulu ukukwazi ukuqonda iinkalo ezahlukeneyo ngokucacileyo kwakhona. Kwaye ewe, ngaphezu kwako konke, indenze ndacinga kwakhona. Ngoko ke, lunjani uluntu lwaseViet kwaye lunjani malunga noluntu lwaseKorea, oluyenye yezona ndawo zinkulu zaseAsia apha eBerlin kwaye eneneni inokuninzi ekwabelwana ngayo ngokwembali ngeMfazwe yaseVietnam, ngakumbi amajoni aseKorea awayethunyelwe e-Asia. Imfazwe yaseVietnam kwaye kukho amava angathandekiyo kwaye andizange ndifumane ithuba lokufumana abantu abavela kuluntu lwaseViet ukuza kuthi ga ngoku ukuba sitshintshiselane ngakumbi ngesihloko. Yiyo loo nto ndivuyayo ukuba singatshintshiselana ngezimvo kwakhona kule nxalenye.
Thủy-Tiên [00:06:00] Ewe, ndiyifumene inika umdla kakhulu ukuva isiqendu sakho, Nataly. Ewe, ndiyiqaphele into oyithethileyo. Asikhange sibenalo ngokwenene ixesha lokuthetha nabanye abantu ngezi zihloko, kodwa kuninzi nje malunga nomsebenzi nezinto zamatshantliziyo, nto leyo ikwabalulekile. Kodwa kuchukumisa ngokwenene ukuva nako. Ngokunjalo naxa nithetha ngokufutshane nichukumise ibali likatata wenu, niphinde nibalise nokuba kwakunjani kuwe ukufika kwakho eJamani usemncinci kangaka. Zininzi ke izinto endingazaziyo, kuquka ngawe. Kwaye ewe, bekumnandi ngokwenene ukuva ibali kwakhona malunga nentuthuzelo yabasetyhini okanye i-AG evela kuMbutho waseKorea. Unexesha elingakanani lo msebenzi. Yiloo nto kanye endiyifumene ichukumisa kakhulu. Kwaye ewe, bendinemibuzo emininzi nasemva kokumamela isiqendu sakho. Yiyo loo nto ndivuya kakhulu kuba sinokudibana apha.
Linda [00:07:02] Ngokuqinisekileyo ndonwabile kakhulu malunga nemibuzo oyilungisileyo. Ewe nam ndinemibuzo embalwa kuwe kwaye ke ndingahlala phantsi, ukuze ndithethe. Umbuzo olandelayo. Ndiyifumana apha inikwe imvelaphi eyahlukileyo yamava eniza nayo nobabini, ngakumbi kwisiVietnam kodwa nakwi-diaspora yaseKorea eJamani. Ulawula njani ukujongana nezihloko ezinje ngemfazwe, inkcubeko yokukhumbula, isazisi kumsebenzi wakho wobutsha-ntliziyo kwaye kwangaxeshanye, ndingatsho, ngaphandle kokutyeshela ezi zihloko ezinzima, ubunzima besi sihloko buhluke kakhulu, buhluke kakhulu, buhluke kakhulu. intsimi inokungahoywa, ngokungathi kunjalo.
Nataly [00:07:37] Ewe, andicingi ukuba kulula kangako ukujongana nazo zontathu ezi zihloko kunye nokuntsonkotha kwesihloko. Ke ukuba ngoku sinamathela kwisihloko sokuthuthuzela abasetyhini, ihlala ingumbuzo womenzi wobubi kunye nezizwe ezingamaxhoba. Iimbono ezahlukeneyo. Kwaye ke kukwakho nesimo sengqondo secala laseJamani, apho silapha singabantu abafudukayo. Kwaye yinkqubo yokufunda engakholelekiyo ukuba nathi ngandlel 'ithile sikwathi kulungile, ezi nkumbulo sizise nathi kwaye esisilwele iminyaka engama-30 ukuza kuthi ga ngoku, oko kwenzeka eJamani kwaye kufuneka kwakhona ibe yinxalenye yeJamani. inkcubeko yokukhumbula . Esi sisahluko esitsha ngokupheleleyo kunye nembono entsha ekufuneka siyifune kwabanye. Kwaye yayilixesha elide lisiza. Ke bekukho le politiki yesazisi, ibihamba ngokuhambelana, kwaye yile nto iyiyo kum okwangoku. Ukuze ngale mbali kunye nale mbali siyizise nathi, kwaye sidibanisa le mbambano kunye nezopolitiko zesazisi, inkumbulo yethu yeyoluntu lokufuduka kwaye kufuneka yamkelwe. Kwaye yeyona nto yokugqibela ibaluleke kakhulu ukuhlanganisa zonke izihloko ezithathu. Yiyo loo nto umsebenzi umnandi kakhulu kum okwangoku.
Thủy-Tiên [00:09:10] Ngoko ndicinga kwiimeko zam okanye xa kuziwa kwizinto zokwenene ze-Vietnamese kunye ne-Vietnamese diasporic ubomi, ndicinga ukuba umngeni awukona ukwenza amabali athile angabonakali okanye uwalibale. Baninzi abantu base-Vietnamese diasporic apha eJamani, ayingabo bonke abanalo ibali, kodwa kukho abantu ababalekile. Abantu abeza ngomsebenzi wekhontrakthi, ngokufuduka komtshato, ngokufunda, ngoqeqesho, ngezinye iindlela. Kwaye loo nto ithetha ukuba zininzi iinyaniso ezahlukeneyo zobomi. Ngokunjalo nakwisizukulwana sesibini okanye kwisizukulwana esinesiqingatha. Ndibona umngeni wokuba zonke iinyani zobomi zinokubonwa kwaye ke imizabalazo eyahlukileyo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba, kumsebenzi wam wobutshantliziyo, kubaluleke kakhulu kum ukuba ndingabonisi nje ibali okanye umzabalazo okanye into enjalo kwaye ndifune nje iimfuno zaloo nto, kodwa nokuba ndinxibelelane nabanye abaninzi ndidibanisa abantu, kuba umzekelo, nazo Vietnamese diasporic, kodwa zineenyani ezahlukeneyo ngokupheleleyo zobomi, beza eJamani ngabazali babo okanye ngendlela eyahlukileyo ngokupheleleyo ukuba abazalelwa eJamani kwaye loo nto nje umzabalazo eqhelekileyo ukuba sihlanganisa kunye sijonge kakhulu. yezihloko ezahlukeneyo kwaye sikwaqonda ukuba zonke zinxibelelene enye kwenye kwaye akufuneki sihambe ngeendlela zethu ezahlukeneyo.
UNataly [00:10:54] Ndicinga ukuba uluntu lwaseKorea lukwajongene ne-polarization eninzi. Ke isizukulwana sokuqala esafika eJamani, abantu basezimayini nangenxa yezopolitiko eSouth Korea, apho babhala abantu abagxeka urhulumente njenge-pro-North Korea, i-pro-komanisi kwaye iyingozi kurhulumente, indawo yethu yahlulelene kangaka? Kwaye kwabakho isizukulwana sesibini, esiye safumana unxibelelwano oluncinci kakhulu eKorea okanye, njengoko abaninzi baye bathi, ukususela ngo-1988 ukuya phambili, olu xhulumaniso lwaseKorea lwatshintsha, kodwa ngaphambili lalineentloni ngelizwe. Kwaye kukho ngokwenene ezininzi iingxaki. Kwaye apho mna njengo-1,5. Isizukulwana sihlala simi phakathi, ndiva macala omabini ukuba kukho ucalucalulo ngokupheleleyo. Akukho ukuqonda kuba abazali bacinga ukuba xa ndikwazi ukuthetha isiJamani kakuhle, ndingenza yonke into engcono apha eJamani kwaye abantwana kufuneka babe nayo yonke into engcono kwaye abanakucinga ukuba bazalelwe kwilizwe ozalelwa kulo, kodwa njengokuba kunjalo ayaziwa njengeyeyakho. Abakwazi nokuyithelekelela kuba abayazi. Kwaye ndacinga kakhulu ngaloo nto nam. Kodwa akukho lula ukuba ngandlel 'ithile ukuzisa la macala mabini kunye nangaphaya koko, njengoko ubutshilo, beza eJamani ngezizathu ezahlukeneyo kwaye ke ukuba awungowesininzi elizweni, uninzi lwazo alubonakalisi. esidlangalaleni okanye ziyasebenza.
Thủy-Tiên [00:12:50] Ndibona iingqamaniso ezimbalwa kakhulu. Ewe, kunzima kakhulu kum ukuthetha malunga noluntu lwaseVietnam kuba alukho kwaye andikwazi ukuthetha kumntu wonke. Kodwa ewe, ndikwabona ukungqamana okumbalwa. Andiyi kuthetha ukuba kukho naluphi na uhlobo lolwahlulo okanye andiyiboni njengokwahlukana, kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo kukho ugcino kwisizukulwana sokuqala. Ndiyazi ngokuyintloko kubazali bam okanye izalamane kwaye ewe, isizukulwana sabazali bam, umzekelo, bonke, usapho lwam lonke lwebhayoloji, babalekile kwaye bonke bavela emazantsi okanye kumbindi weVietnam. Okanye abanye babo babaleka besuka eMntla Vietnam besiya eMzantsi Vietnam ngelo xesha. Kwakukho iindlela zokusaba apho. Okanye ubalekele kuMbindi weVietnam ukuya eMzantsi Vietnam. Kwaye ndibona nje ugcino okanye ucalucalulo oluchasene nabantu baseNyakatho yeVietnam abathi, umzekelo, beza eJamani ngomsebenzi wekhontrakthi, kuba ke bahlala betyholwa ngokungasekelwanga kubumbano, kuba, umzekelo, abazange babhabhe kunye nathi, kuba ngandlel’ ithile banyanisekile kurhulumente okanye bangamakomanisi, oko kukuthi, ubukomanisi ngengqiqo yokuba kunjani eVietnam, oko kukuthi, ubukomanisi baseVietnam bubonakala njani. Kwaye ke nam ndiyazi ngenye indlela ngeenxa zonke, ukuba abantu abaninzi abasabayo batyholwa ngokungcatsha umanyano, oko kukuthi, ndiyaqonda kwakhona ukuba abantu baseNyakatho yeVietnam ke abantu abasabayo bathi ewe, Ke namhlanje ungcatshe ilizwe lethu kwaye wena. usishiye sodwa apha. Kwaye oko ngokuqinisekileyo kuya kuqhubeka nakwizizukulwana ezizayo. Endiyifumene nayo iyingxaki ngokupheleleyo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba kuye kwafuneka ndisokole ixesha elide njengesizukulwana sesibini ukuyilungisa kwaye ndibe nencoko nabazali bam ndithi, kulungile, ndiyaziqonda iimbono zakho, kodwa ayisiyonto ipholileyo ukucinga into enjalo okanye ukuba nayo. ucalucalulo olunjalo. Okanye kukho izizathu ezahlukahlukeneyo zokuba abantu babaleke okanye bangabaleki okanye benze okanye bangawenzi lo msebenzi wekhontrakthi. Kwaye ke kukho, um, ewe, abantu baseVietnam abeza eJamani ukuza kufunda okanye ngenxa yokuba bekukho eli thuba. Emva koko kukho iiyantlukwano ezininzi zeklasi kwaye kulapho udidi lweklasi ludlala indima. Kwaye ndiyayibona ngokupheleleyo ingxabano okanye ukuba kungakho ukruthakruthwano okanye ungquzulwano. Ewe, kuba kukho indlela yokuba mhlawumbi awukwazi ukudibana kwinqanaba lokuqonda ngamanye amaxesha okanye ngenxa yokuba iinyani zobomi zihluke ngokwenene. Okanye ngenxa yokuba ezinye ii-self-reflections zilahlekile kumaphepha amaninzi.
UNataly [00:16:05] Ke leyo yayiyimibuzo ngokwenene endandihlala ndinayo malunga noluntu lwaseViet. Ndicinga ukuba kuhle ukuba uyilungiselele kakuhle, okanye ngaphandle, ngaphandle kokuyiqinisa okanye ukuyibeka ngokweendidi. Ke into enjalo ikhona kwaye awukwazi ukuthetha ngoluntu lwaseVietnam. Kwaye ewe, uMbutho waseKorea uhlala uqondwa njengomele uluntu lwaseKorea. Kodwa ngokwenene sisebenzela uninzi loluntu ukunika ulwazi malunga neKorea kwaye kwangaxeshanye sinalo lonke olu lwazi kunye nalo mandla avela kuluntu lwaseKorea. Ewe, sikwanayo nale ngxaki bendiyikhankanyile yokubhalwa kwezopolitiko. Kutshanje ndithethe nomlawuli wesikolo saseKorea apha eBerlin kwaye akalinge eze kuthi kuba sidume ngokuba ngabasekhohlo, abakrwada kunye nobukomanisi. (Thủy-Tiên: “Wow”) Kwaye ngenxa yalo lonke olu hlaselo ngurhulumente waseJapan, kukwakho umkhwa wokunene eKorea kangangokuba kufuneka siyikhanyele eyethu imbali yobukoloniyali okanye sithi ibingekho mbi kangako, yayingekho. Yaye ngale mizuzu nam ndiba buhlungu ngokwenene ndize ndithi, Ngaba kunokwenzeka ukuba siqhawule olu calucalulo ukuze sinxibelelane? Lo ngumngeni omkhulu kakhulu esingenako ukuwubekela bucala.
Thủy-Tiên [00:18:02] Ewe, kwaye ndiyayiqonda ngokupheleleyo into oyithethayo malunga nendlela wena njengombutho waseKorea ngandlela thile ubonwa njengoluntu lwaseKorea kwaye ndicinga ukuba oko kubeka uxinzelelo olukhulu kuyo. Ngoko. Kwakhona ngandlela-thile ndiyawuqonda umnqweno wabantu abaninzi ukuba babe nohlobo oluthile lokumelwa, kodwa. Ke ngaphandle kwento yokuba akufuneki iphele ekumelaneni. Kodwa oko kuyenzeka naxa ndingabenzeli ubulungisa abantu abenza lo msebenzi, xa bengazichazi ngolo hlobo.
UNataly [00:18:40] Kunjalo. Eneneni, besilwa ngalo lonke ixesha. Akukho mfazi waseKorea, akukho stereotype enjalo kwaye andimeli iKorea. Ngoko oko kwakugabadekile ngokwenene ukufika kwakhe eJamani kwiminyaka engama-46 eyadlulayo. Enoba ndenza ntoni na, ndandingowaseKorea. Kwaye ngoku, ngenxa yokuba ndandingafuni ukuba ngumKorea, yayiluxinzelelo oluphambeneyo olo. Kwaye kunjalo nje. Mhlawumbi ukuba sishwankathela incoko kancinane ngoku, ndicinga ukuba kuhle ukuba ekugqibeleni sithi akukho nto injengeVietnam okanye uluntu lwaseKorea. Kodwa phakathi koluntu sikwanazo zininzi iingxaki ezahlukeneyo. Kuntsokothile kakhulu kwaye mhlawumbi sinokutshintshiselana ngezimvo ngokusondeleyo kwaye mhlawumbi oku kucamngca kuya kunceda.
ULinda [00:19:39] Kwaye mhlawumbi isiqendu esidityanisiweyo esirekhodayo namhlanje siya kunceda ukunika ukuqonda ngakumbi kunye nokhanyiselo. Umbono wesi siqendu wawungaphezu kwayo yonke loo nto, njengoko benditshilo ngaphambili, umamela iziqendu zomnye nomnye kwaye ulungiselele imibuzo ngokufanelekileyo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba ndonwabile kakhulu ukubona ukuba loluphi uhlobo lwemibuzo oyilungisileyo kwaye ngokusisiseko ungayinikezela kuwe kuqala. Andazi ukuba ngubani kuni ongathanda ukuqala.
UNataly [00:20:04] Ndicinga ukuba inxalenye yemibuzo yethu yayisele ikumbuzo wokuqala. Kuya kufuneka ndijonge kwakhona ngandlela thile. Ewe, kwicala lam, umbuzo wam wokuqala, ndiyacinga, waphendulwa. Ezi ngxwabangxwaba, abantu beza “njengabantu besikhephe”, oko kukuthi, ulwahlulo lwezopolitiko ngelo xesha eVietnam kunye nabasebenzi bekhontrakthi emva koko beza kwi-GDR kwaye emva kokudityaniswa kwezi ndawo zimbini kuya kufuneka zifumane indlela yazo apha kwakhona. Ke ngoko, kwaye ndicinga ukuba ibingumceli mngeni omkhulu lowo kwaye ngoku unike nokuqonda. Kwaye umbuzo wam wesibini wawuhluke kancinane kunokuba wawuseJamani kwaye unxulumene nomsebenzi woluntu, kuba ngoko uthe wawusebenza apho kwaye ufuna ukusebenza kunye nee-NGOs zaseVietnam. Kwaye eneneni ndifumanisa oko kungaqhelekanga kakhulu kwisizukulwana sesibini esiseJamani. Kwaye ndingathanda ukwazi ngakumbi malunga nendlela obenze ngayo abafowunelwa okanye usebenza nabo kwindawo kunye namaqela aseVietnam okanye ukuba sele uphumeze okuthile. Ngoko. Ewe, ndinomdla kakhulu.
Thủy-Tiên [00:21:31] Ndifuna ngokwenene ukwazi abantu abaninzi abalwela amalungelo abantu eVietnam kunye nomsebenzi wabo kunye nobunzima babo kunye neemfuno zabo. Ingakumbi abaphembeleli bemozulu, umzekelo, into enzima kakhulu kuba zininzi, kodwa andiqondi ukuba iyabonakala kuba iyingozi kakhulu kwaye abaphembeleli bemozulu eVietnam bahlala bevalelwa entolongweni okanye bafumana ezinye iintlobo zobundlobongela. Ndinomdla kakhulu wokwazi amanye amatsha ntliziyo kwezinye izihloko. Ndicinga ukuba okwenzekileyo ngoku kukuba ndiseVietnam kwakhona kulo nyaka iiveki ezisixhenxe kwaye ndabamba i-workshop kunye noQuang Nguyễn-Xuân kunye noViệt Đức Phạm kwisihloko esithi Masithethe ngoBugcisa kunye noBulungisa beNtlalo. Singathini ke ukupakisha imiba yobulungisa nocalucalulo njlnjl kubugcisa? Okanye ingaba ubugcisa bunokuba yindlela yokuqhubela phambili imizabalazo yethu yenkululeko? Kwaye kwabakho nemibuzo efana nokuba zeziphi iindima zam okanye zeziphi iindima endizifumana ndikuzo kwimibutho yezentlalo kwaye loluphi uxanduva esinalo njengamagcisa xa silwela inkululeko nobulungisa kunye nokufikeleleka ngakumbi? Kwaye oko bekumnandi kwaye kumnandi ngenene kwaye ndingathanda ukuqhubeka nokulungelelanisa nokubamba iindawo ezinjalo kwaye ndikwazi nomsebenzi wabanye abantu abalwela amalungelo abantu eVietnam, kuba andihlali naseVietnam. Kukwanzima kakhulu kum ukuba ndikwazi ukugcina abafowunelwa ngokuzinzileyo okanye ndikwazi ukuthungelana ngokusondeleyo njengokuba ndenza apha, eBerlin naseJamani. Ngoko ndiya eVietnam malunga nokuba kanye ngonyaka kwaye ndingathanda ukuyigcina injalo. Ewe, i-Instagram ikwayindlela entle yokugcina unxibelelwano. Kodwa ewe, kunzima kakhulu. Ngaphezulu kwayo yonke into, ngenxa yendlela ezicinezela ngayo izinto eVietnam xa kufikwa kwizihloko ezinjalo, kuba kukho ucelomngeni olucacileyo kwaye sathetha ngayo kakhulu ngaphambili kwaye sabaleka kwiimeko ezithile kwaye safumana iingcebiso malunga nokuba yeyiphi imigaqo esinokuyithatha ukukhuthaza. le workshop. Ngoko ke ubulungisa bentlalo bunovakalelo kakhulu. I-Abolitionism ayifani kwaphela, ngoko ke andiqondi ukuba iya kuba kuyo. Kwaye kunjani xa oorhulumente beza kwiindawo zethu ngolo hlobo? Kuba nantso into eyenzekayo, yile nto yenzekileyo ngexesha lokusebenza kwethu. Ndicinga ukuba bekukho elinye ipolisa apho. Ngokuchanekileyo. Ngoko ngumsebenzi owahluke ngokupheleleyo kwaye ufuna kakhulu. Ke andifuni ukuthetha kakhulu ngeViet yendawo kuba benza lo msebenzi ubalulekileyo eVietnam. Kodwa sele ndiqaphele ukuba akukho lula njengokuba kunjalo apha eBerlin, umzekelo. Kodwa kukho iindlela ngokuqinisekileyo. Ewe, ukujongana novavanyo kunye noxinzelelo kwaye usenakho ukuseta izihloko ezithile okanye utshintshiselwano ngezimvo.
UNataly [00:25:08] Ewe, enkosi kakhulu ngokubonisa indlela entsonkothe ngayo okanye ekunzima ngayo ukusebenza kwezopolitiko eVietnam. Kwaye eneneni i-Korea Association yavela ngokwenene kulo msebenzi esasisoloko sitshutshisa ngezopolitiko kunye nabantu ababecinezelwe kwaye bathuthunjiswa eKorea ngexesha lolawulo lobuzwilakhe lomkhosi. Kwaye siye saphuhlisa indawo ethile yokukhusela eJamani. Kwaye kukho into yokuba nathi sasisebenza, njengamaKorea aselubhacweni sisoyika ukubhabha eKorea ngalo lonke ixesha. Abantu abaninzi babanjiwe kwisikhululo seenqwelomoya, ngoko ke akukho ngaphandle kweziphumo zayo. Kodwa okwangoku, iKorea iye yaba yidemokhrasi kwaye nathi, uluntu lwaseKorea kwi-diaspora, siye sadlala indima enkulu kwaye kusenjalo nanamhlanje kwaye ndiyayibulela kakhulu loo nto kwisizukulwana sokuqala kuba zininzi kakhulu. abafowunelwa eKorea. Kwaye ngoku sikwanokhetho oluninzi oluvela kuMbutho waseKorea. Ewe kufana nokuba neofisi kunye nedilesi ye-imeyile. Sifumana imibuzo emininzi evela eKorea ngokwayo kwaye ndicinga njalo. Ubugcisa, le ntshukumo, la mandla, obu buchule buvela eKorea, ngoku siguqulela eJamani ukuze senze iJamani yaziwe apha. Kwaye umzekelo omkhulu woku nguMfanekiso woXolo. Ngoko oko kwavela kuluntu olusezantsi kanye. Le ntshukumo esinayo ngoku eJamani kwaye ukuze sikwazi ukusebenzisana nolutsha apha kwaye senze into entsha.
Thủy-Tiên [00:27:04] Ewe, ndiyifumana ichukumisa ngokwenene into yokuba ezi zakhiwo sele zikhona, umzekelo ngonxibelelwano, kwaye ezi zihloko kucingwa ngazo ngendlela yokuthanda amazwe ngamazwe. Ndikufumanisa kuchukumisa ngokwenene kwaye kuyakhuthaza ukuva.
Nataly [00:27:23] Ke ukuba unomdla kuloo nto. Um, njengenxalenye ye-GADAG ngoku sibonisa ifilimu malunga neMfazwe yaseVietnam kunye nomsebenzi wokukhumbula eVietnam nguLee-Kil Bora kunye naseKorea kukho umbutho waseKorea waseVietnam, obandakanyeka kakhulu kumsebenzi wokukhumbuza, ozayo. ukujongana nomsebenzi woluntu waseVietnam weMfazwe yaseVietnam. Kwaye bakhuthaza amaxhoba aseVietnam, oko kukuthi abo bachaphazelekayo, ukuba bafake isikhalazo kurhulumente waseMzantsi Korea. Kwaye samangalela kunyaka ophelileyo okanye kwiminyaka emibini edlulileyo, ngempumelelo, kwaye le yinkqubela yokuqala.
Thủy-Tiên [00:28:07] Wow, kuhle kakhulu ukwazi kuba bendikufuna. Ke oko bekuya kuba ngumbuzo kuwe, ukuba uyayazi na ukuba ijongeka njani ngokulungiswa kunye nokulungiswa njalo njalo. Ewe.
UNataly [00:28:19] Ndicinge njalo, ukuba uninzi lwabahlali baseVietnam abazi ngalo msebenzi, ukuba utshintshiselwano olunjalo lwenzeka njani kwaye lusebenza njani phakathi kweKorea neVietnam. Kwaye ndifumanisa oko kuchulumancisa ngokwenene ukuba sinokuyiqwalasela ngakumbi.
Thủy-Tiên [00:28:38] Ewe, ngokuqinisekileyo isihloko esinomdla kum ixesha elide kwaye ndingathanda ukuthetha nawe malunga okanye sitshintshiselane ngezimvo malunga, iNataly, kukungalingani kwamandla phakathi kwe-East Asia kunye ne-Southeast. Abantu base-Asiya nabo bakwi-diaspora kunye nendlela edlalwa ngayo okanye iboniswa ngokungazi. Kwaye kukho eli gama, elisisithuko, kufuneka ndivelise kwakhona ngokufutshane? Isithuko samaJungle Asia, amahlathi anje ngamahlathi, ahlala esetyenziselwa abantu baseSoutheast Asia, ngabantu baseMpuma Asia. Kwaye ngumbuzo wam kanye lowo, okanye ndingathanda ukuthetha nawe malunga nendlela esijongana ngayo nokungalingani kwamagunya athile okanye ukhetho lwamandla, kuluntu ngokubanzi kwaye nokuba kukho naziphi na iindlela zokujongana nayo xa kukho iingxabano okanye ukungavisisani kwaye ngawaphi amava okanye indlela yokujongana nayo unayo.
UNataly [00:29:44] Hm, ndaliva ngokobuqu eli gama okokuqala. Ndandingazi nokuba kukho iingxabano ezinjalo eJamani okanye eBerlin, oko kukuthi, kummandla waseAsia. Kodwa ndiyazi ukuba eKorea, eJapan, andiyazi ukuba kunjani eTshayina, kodwa sinento yokwenza neSelf-Orientalism. I-internalized, ngoko ubuhlanga okanye oku, lo mnqweno wokuba mhlophe. Ngoko ke ukuba ngowesizwe esiphuhlileyo. Inamandla kangangokuba njengomntu omhlophe eKorea uphathwa kakuhle. Kodwa ngokukhawuleza xa abantu benolusu olumnyama, baphathwa kakubi. Umnqweno unamandla kwaye emva koko ngokuhlala kwe-US phantsi kobukho basemkhosini wase-US kunye nobuhlanga phakathi kwabamnyama nabamhlophe baphinde badluliselwa eKorea. Kwaye noloyiko lokuba ngaseNtshona. Yaye yaba ngumntu. Abantu baseMelika ababi bamnyama kwaye into entle esifuna ukuba yiyo luhlobo olumhlophe. Kwaye oku kubangele ucalucalulo oluninzi kwaye ndineentloni ngokupheleleyo ngaloo nto. Ke ixesha elininzi ndilichithe kuyo kwaye yinto egqithiselwe apha kwisizukulwana sesibini okanye ebantwini. Bendingayazi lonto. Xa ndithetha noluntu lwaseKorea, ndihlala ndigxininisa ukuba sinobuhlanga ngokwethu. Kwaye ngaphezu kwakho konke, umbala wesikhumba omhlophe awukho umbala wesikhumba omhlophe, kodwa xa siseKorea ngokwayo. Simhlophe kuba sinenyhweba. Ngoko ke ndithetha oku ngam. Ndinabazali ababenemfundo esemgangathweni, nto leyo eyabangela ukuba ndifumane imfundo yaseyunivesithi. Ndafunda phesheya. Ngoko ndinelungelo elipheleleyo xa ndiseKorea. Kodwa ngenye indlela, xa ndilapha eJamani, ndingumphambukeli apha kwaye zininzi izinto ezingalunganga kwaye andazi ukuba njani, bandijonga ngolo hlobo, kancinci ngolo hlobo. Eyelashes betting ewe, kwaye abanye banqwala. Kodwa oko akukho zingqondweni ngokwenene. Kunjalo eJamani. Ndithi andinacalucalulo njengoko abantu abaninzi besitsho. Ndine. Ndinaye umntu nam. Ndinabo nabamelwane baseTurkey. Intoni? Yiloo ndlela abantu abalula bacinga ngayo. Kodwa uyayazi indlela oluntsonkothe ngayo ubuhlanga. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba ekuphela kwento enokwenzeka kukuba kufuneka sijongane ngakumbi. Ndiye ndaqaphela mva nje ukuba ndiqhelana nabantu abahlukeneyo, umzekelo balwa nelitye lesikhumbuzo apha eBerlin. Kodwa lonke uluntu luyasokola noluntu oluninzi. Kodwa sinonxibelelwano oluncinci omnye nomnye kuba asinasikhundla okanye izixhobo kuba kufuneka siphile apha njengabahlali basemzini. Ngamnye kubo, kodwa wonke umntu ukhululekile. Xa ndisecicini lokudinwa, njengam, ndisebenze kakhulu kwaye ndinezixhobo ezimbalwa zokubakho kwezinye iindawo. Ndicinga ukuba kufuneka itshintshe kancinci. Ngoko hlala usomeleza uluntu lwethu, kodwa ungabukeki njengabanye kwaye ubone ukuba izinto zihamba njani kwezinye iindawo. Kwaye oko kuya kuthetha ukuba kuya kufuneka ukuba kubekho utshintshiselwano ngakumbi. Ewe, ndiyaxolisa ukuba igama elinjalo lisekho.
Thủy-Tiên [00:34:04] Ewe. Ewe, ndicinga njalo nam. Ndikwacinga ukuba kubalulekile ukuba imizabalazo icingelwe kwaye iqhutywe kunye ngale ndlela. Ewe, ndikufumanisa kunzima naxa kukho iingxabano neengxabano ezinjalo. Kodwa amaxesha amaninzi azinakuconjululwa kwaphela. Kwaye kulungile, ndiyacinga. Kodwa ndisacinga ukuba kubalulekile ukubonisa ubumbano omnye komnye emva koko ngandlel' ithile imizabalazo yezopolitiko kunye nokudibana kwi-Collective Liberation. Ewe, kunye nokuxhasana. Nokuba kukho ezinye iingxabano ngandlel’ ithile. Eyona nto ndiyibona inzima kuxa singenaso nesiseko esifanayo kwezopolitiko. Ngoko xa kukho iingxabano zezopolitiko. Ngokuchanekileyo. Kunzima ngandlel’ ithile. Ndikwanqwenela ukuba singatshintshiselana ngezimvo ngakumbi ukuba bekukho izithuba ezininzi zoko. Kukonke. Kukwakho nokuba ngandlel’ ithile ixesha nezibonelelo zinokubelwa oku. Nokuba kunzima kakhulu kuba yonke enye into iyaqhubeka. Kwaye nokuba sisenako ukubonisa ubumbano omnye komnye kwaye siyabona nokuba ngumlo omkhulu lowo.
UNataly [00:35:32] Ewe, kanye. Ndikwafunde lukhulu kwingxabano no-Oyoun, indlela lo mbandela owasahlula ngayo. Ngequbuliso kwavuleka imisele. Ekuqaleni ndandinomsindo kwaye ndingathethi. Indlela abangabagxeki ngayo abenzi bobubi babo abasebenzisa igunya lobuhegemoni. Kunoko, siqhekeza i-Oyoun. Ndiphinde ndabiza yonke le nto yexhoba ukuba ndibeke ityala. Ukusukela ngoko ndiye ndasiqonda isizathu sokuba abantu othetha nabo ngesi sihloko babonise ubumbano, kwaye ukuba kwimbumba yamanyama ngamanye amaxesha kuthetha ukuba naxa kukho ukungquzulana kokwabo. Ukuba sinombono ocacileyo yintoni esilwa nayo? Sonke si? Kwaye thina njengabo basekuhlaleni, njengoko sifuna obu bulungisa bezentlalo kwaye sifuna ukuba nentlonipho. Kumalunga noku kunye noku kungabikho kwentlonipho. Yiloo nto ubuhlanga bukhoyo kuyo yonke indawo kunye nesini. Kwaye asimele siyilibale loo nto, eyona nto inkulu. Ivela phi? Kwaye ke singadibana kwakhona kwaye soyise oku kungacaci kancinci kwaye sibone ukuba yintoni ingxaki? Kodwa ngokuqhelekileyo inyuka ngokukhawuleza enye kwenye kunye nokukhathazeka okufumanayo. Kwaye kule meko yocalucalulo, izinto ngamanye amaxesha ziyajikelana ngendlela yokuba ndiye ndibe namava oko rhoqo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba lihlazo ngokwenene. Kodwa mhlawumbi kunokuba lula ukulungisa ukuba sihlala sizibeka phantsi kolu ngquzulwano kwaye sithi molweni madoda, yintoni ingxaki esisiseko? Undoqo kukuba asinalo ilungelo, ukuba asinalo ithuba lokuthatha inxaxheba kulawulo kwaye singenalizwi kulo.
Thủy-Tiên [00:37:41] Ewe, ndicinga ukuba inokuhamba ngokuhambelanayo. Ngoko ke ndisacinga ukuba kubalulekile, xa kukho ungquzulwano, abantu bavele bathathe uxanduva kwaye baziphendulele kwaye oko kunokusetyenzwa kwaye sibonane kunye ukuba siyavana njani. Kwaye kwangaxeshanye, ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke kakhulu ukuqhubeka nokubonisa ubumbano kunye nokuxhasana xa kukho isiseko esifanayo sezopolitiko. Ewe, ndicinga ukuba ndifuna ukutsho nje ukuba andifuni kuzibekela bucala iingxabano. Ukuthi ewe, kodwa silwela into enkulu, kodwa ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke kakhulu ukuyibeka kwindawo kwaye sisebenze ngayo. Kodwa ukuba oko akunakwenzeka. Ndicinga ukuba kubaluleke ngokwenene. Nangona kunjalo. Ukudibana ngokubambisana.
UNataly [00:38:41] Ewe, ndicinga njalo. Ke ndiyathetha, ndicinga nokuba iingxabano ngamanye amaxesha azinakusonjululwa. Kufuneka kwakhona ixesha. Kodwa nithembane kumsebenzi woluntu kwaye nibonise ubumbano nokuba kubalulekile. Kwaye ukuba ngokwenene unenjongo enkulu kwaye uthembele, iya kusebenza kwaye iingxabano zinokusonjululwa. Kwaye kufuneka uyilungele loo nto. Kwaye. Kwaye kufuneka siziqhelanise nokwenzakala ngokuphindaphindiweyo. Kwaye mhlawumbi okona kulungileyo kuko konke, yindalo yomntu. Ndingathanda ukungabi nanto yakwenza nayo, kodwa iya kuba njalo. Nje ukuba ungene kule ndawo yezopolitiko ngendlela emele, kuya kufuneka ukuba ushiye umntu ngasemva kancinci.
Linda [00:39:37] Ukugqiba kakuhle kufuna okuninzi. Kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba sonke sijongane ngakumbi kwaye sicinge ngeziqu zethu. Kulungile, zingaphi iindlela esinazo. Ngokubanzi, sinale nto kwaye sibonisa ubumbano, kodwa sikwafumane kwaye sizenzele izithuba. Kuyo nayiphi na imeko, ndingathanda ukubulela kakhulu ngale ncoko ibangel’ umdla yaye ndiyathemba ukuba siya kuva okanye sifunde okuninzi ngakumbi kuni. Kwaye kuye wonke umntu ongevanga iziqendu zokuqala, qiniseka ukuba ujonge i-Oyoun.de, apho unokumamela zonke iziqendu. Ndingayincoma kakhulu. Kwaye ewe, ndingathanda ukubulela kwakhona kakhulu, kakhulu ngexesha lakho kwaye ewe, ngezimvo ezinkulu.
Thủy-Tiên [00:40:14] Ewe, enkosi uNataly ngencoko kwaye ndiyabulela uLinda ngokumodareyitha nokudala indawo kwaye kunjalo ne-GADAG nayo.
UNataly [00:40:23] Ewe, ndifunde okuninzi namhlanje. Kwaye ngenene ibingalindelekanga kwaye intle kangakanani na kuba asinaxesha. Ewe ndiyibonile into eyenziwa nguThủy-Tiên kwaye nam ndathatha inxaxheba kwindibano yenu yocweyo, kodwa ngakumbi xa kufikelelwa kumsebenzi wezopolitiko, sasinotshintshiselwano oluncinane kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo asinakwenza nto. Kodwa nam ndandikhe ndeva ngakumbi ngokobuqu, kuba amava emfazwe yabazali bakho ayengekudalanga kangako. Kodwa ndimdala ngeminyaka embalwa kuwe kwaye bendisoloko ndibuza le mibuzo mva nje. Kuphela kwaba semva kweminyaka elishumi eyathi yaphela iMfazwe yaseKorea ndaza ndazalelwa apho. Kwaye ke, imfazwe iyaqhubeka, nokuba wonke umntu wayefuna ukuyicinezela. Kwaye ndinemvakalelo yokuba abantu abaninzi kuluntu lwaseVietnam abafuni ukuyikhumbula ekuqaleni.
Linda [00:41:30] Enkosi kakhulu.